New Fuel Injector Pump leaking?

[PlowinFields]

Just had my Injector pump replaced on my 2007 Kioti CK25. After reading about the debacle from many others who have had the same problem and not getting anywhere with Kioto customer service, I decided that I'd just pony up the pennies and buy a new one, since I don't really have the know how to repair them and I don't really need a 3000lb garage decoration. Dealer told me it was a 2 hour job roughly to install it but they had it almost a week and a half. I got a story that they ordered the wrong pump. Well, they finally dropped it off this week and after less than 2 hours of loader work with it pushing her around 2200 RPM, I noticed it's leaking fuel pretty badly around one of the 3 injector heads. Does anyone have any idea why it would be leaking here?

The good news is that the dealer said he'll send over a mechanic tomorrow to check it out. It seems to be leaking fuel on only one of the three lines, but it's enough to cause puddles on the ground after she was idle for 5 mins. After shelling out $1800 CAD, I'm not really impressed at all.

 

[dfkrug]

Hopefully, just a loose fitting on the injector, but it may have been cross-threaded when
the mechanic put it back together.

 

[PlowinFields]

So those lines just screw directly into the FIP? Gosh, I hope it's not a cross-threading problem on the pump's threads, it's brand new!!

 

[Coyote machine]

Wow! Sorry to hear of your troubles. What exactly was the old IP doing that it needed replacement and at what hours on the clock?
Hindsight is 20/20, but if you have a similar problem in future please come to the Kioti section of TBN and post the issue. We'll see what we can do to save you some money, instead of having to shell out for a complete new pump. We have some good pump rebuilders who can repair these pumps effectively and economically.

Your dealer's work should be warrantied so I wouldn't worry too much about what the problem is. It could be just a loose fitting they didn't tighten enough. The fuel is under tremendous pressure as it enters the injectors so keep clear until they fix it. It can enter your skin/eyes and cause serious damage.
Let us know the outcome, and please share what the symptoms/ process was leading to pump replacement.

 

[PlowinFields]

Initially, it started taking longer to roll over before it would start. Then it started taking a few attempts to get it to start and then one day, it whirled over and over and wouldn't start. That's when I called the dealer and he sent the mechanic up. They're only a short distance from my place so it's pretty convenient. The mechanic checked all the various routes the fuel takes along it's travels, and then tried to move the pin inside the FIP. He said it was jammed up and concluded the FIP must have gone. I suspect it was the broken teeth issue that everyone else had been experiencing. Once the mechanic left, I started doing my own research and that's when I came across this website and read about all who experienced this very problem on this forum (wow you guys are super helpful community!!).

I thought about getting it rebuilt, but I'm not very mechnically inclined and I really wasn't comfortable with tackling removing the FIP myself. Plus most of the rebuilders mentioned on the forums were States side (I'm in Canada), so I wasn't sure about the customs etc. I figured buying one new was probably my best bet, but I was also shocked at the price. The work is definitely warrantied so I'm not too worried about it. It's just the hassle is all. Thanks for the heads up! I definitely won't be running it again until they have a look at it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Fields, Not the best time to say this, but your problem symptoms are not typical of the IP failures we have seen here on TBN. Typically, the tractor is running normally, shuts off normally, and will never start again. A "frozen" IP rack pin (i.e., it won't move) is typical of this IP gear failure but the stop solenoid must first be retracted (or SS removed) before you try to move the pin. If the tractor ran normally (once it started) you probably didn't have a fuel system problem. Did it start OK after the engine was at operating temp? Hard cold start but OK hot start is more typical of a glow plug problem, which can be caused by the key switch or a relay, as well as the actual glow plugs.

But that's all water over the dam. Fixing your current leak should be trivial unless threads or a seating surface is damaged. Either way, the dealer needs to fix it.

 

[Coyote machine]

Yeah, Scott, I too was thinking about the described symptoms while replying to another thread and it didn't really sound familiar as to a bad IP.
Here's what I want to know from Fields: When you were trying to get her to start, are we talking first start of the day, (cold)? What would happen if you did get her to start? Would she restart hot with no trouble? If not, how would you get her to restart after having warmed her up and then going to restart after sitting for some amount of time?

As an aside, but all part of hard starting conditions, recently I've noticed more often that my DK-40 will not start when I go to start, after it's already to op temp. I will turn the key all the way to the right and she will crank fast, but it is immediately apparent that she is not going to start. If I try again without winding the key all the way back to key insert/removal position it will repeat the same fast crank no start routine. However, if I wind all the way back to key removal position and try she does crank normally and will start. That also seems weird, and I'm wondering if this is going to help narrow down the sometimes look at the key switch, sometimes it's the relay, sometimes it's some other part of the ignition start sequence.

And I wonder if this might have been Field's symptoms, which then got diagnosed as a bad IP?! I'd be curious to see if there is a new lift pump installed on his tractor too? And if the fuel filter was changed before or after the IP was swapped out?

 

[ritcheyvs]

Coyote, One thing that occurs to me is the pull coil relay for the stop solenoid. When you turn the key from dead off to on, a timer (in the display unit, I think) puts out a one second pulse that activates the SS pull relay, which in turn delivers the high current to the SS pull coil for one second. You have to turn the key switch all the way off to restart this sequence. If the pull relay contacts are marginal it might not deliver enough current first time/all-the-time to retract the SS plunger. I read at least one LK owner discovered (after buying a new solenoid) that his SS relay was rated at 30 amps while the pull coil drew, like, 36 amps. His no-start problem went away after replacing the glow relay with one rated for 40 amps.

If the injectors weren't getting any fuel, that would explain the lively cranking but no start.

One easy thing you can do is listen after a no-start when you turn to key back to off. If the stop solenoid is working right you should hear that distinct "clack" when the key gets to "off." If you don't hear that sound the stop solenoid plunger probably didn't get retracted by the pull coil. The fact that it works sometimes points more to the relay than to the actual coil or display unit (or wherever the timer is).

A no-glow problem would have some of those symptoms but an engine at operating temp should start even without glow.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Coyote machine]

That sounds about right. I don't recall hearing the clack at the end of the key off sequence. I'm pretty sure turning the key off resets whatever is 'wrong' in the circuit to begin with. It could be something like dirty relay contacts, or some other simple thing.

And this is where the OP's issues come into play. Say he has been experiencing similar issues with his start circuit wiring. He could be cranking as I have against the function of the circuit and thus getting no start condition. The mechanic diagnosis it as bad IP teeth and then the dealer orders up an IP. They install it, (poorly, I might add), and in the meantime figure out, back at the shop, it has nothing to do with the IP, and further diagnose over the week they have it in house, the actual cause is the relay, or timer, or whatnot. They change that out too, and the OP is none the wiser. In order to know for sure, or at least more likely what happened we need more input from PlowinFields.

 

[TJP89]

That sounds about right. I don't recall hearing the clack at the end of the key off sequence. I'm pretty sure turning the key off resets whatever is 'wrong' in the circuit to begin with. It could be something like dirty relay contacts, or some other simple thing.

And this is where the OP's issues come into play. Say he has been experiencing similar issues with his start circuit wiring. He could be cranking as I have against the function of the circuit and thus getting no start condition. The mechanic diagnosis it as bad IP teeth and then the dealer orders up an IP. They install it, (poorly, I might add), and in the meantime figure out, back at the shop, it has nothing to do with the IP, and further diagnose over the week they have it in house, the actual cause is the relay, or timer, or whatnot. They change that out too, and the OP is none the wiser. In order to know for sure, or at least more likely what happened we need more input from PlowinFields.

That's just bad business on the part of the dealer, if that's what happened. I'd be thinking of a new dealer after this.
The bad IP problem has been on the DK series, not the CK, so this isn't a typical Kioti IP issue.

CM, I sometimes try to just straight start my CK when I think it's at op temp, but isn't, at which point I get your same symptoms until I glow plug it. Too cool of a temp might be your issue, unless you've already proven that's not the issue.