Grapple kits?

JRP · Apr 22, 2011

Has any one seen kits for tractor implements?

I have access to a CNC plasma cutter and have a grapple design about finished. Also thinking about using the CNC to cut out kits of parts and selling them. Sort of like Heathkit was in electronics. My thought was to have all the CNC work pre-cut, along with the pins and bushings. The kit would also include a list of hydraulic parts the customer would get from TSC or perhaps Surplus center.

The customer would unpack the parts, clean them up with a hand grinder, weld them up, paint, and install the hydraulics. I figure fabricating labor and paint is a pretty big chunk of an implement price so the concept could keep price lower. It would be fun. Also, the parts would ship in a smaller package and could be separated into several packages to make shipping UPS possible.

The end result would (could) look store bought and would include an engineering evaluation. It would not look like it was cobbled from the junk pile.

What do you think?

ch47dpilot · Apr 22, 2011

Sounds like a good idea. I do have a suggestion for you. I saw a automotive suspension kit for sale. When they cut the parts they connected all the parts, that need to be welded together, with a tab about 1/16 wide. You could then bend them by hand and weld the ends together. This made sure that the alignment was correct. It also made a perfect gap to weld. Not sure if I described it clearly but hopefully you get the idea.

jimgerken · Apr 22, 2011

CDP backhoe > backhoes & thumb kits

Ubuildit Plans_page3: Build a backhoe, these plans show you how.

And of course...
CadPlans Corporation - Where you can find designs, tips and order information to build your own backhoes, diggers and MORE!

Not sure if any of these had grapple kits, but even if they did there is always room for competition. Your designs may make the difference. Also, plasma cut parts should cost less than laser cut (as most of these above are). Its a great idea, and just the kind of thing I'd like.
Good luck, and show us your design!!!

Reg · Apr 22, 2011

GREAT idea, though there have been others here that have done similar things.
My suggestion is that you search here and follow all the threads on grapples.
Check up on the small builders and see how many of them are still around after 5 years.

Cadplans has some tie in with MetKit, a company that does pre-cut kits for the cad-plans.
I don't know if they have grapple kits though.

I would be interested in a grapple kit, also a hoe thumb (mechanical, convertible to hydraulic) so put me on your mailing list for if/when you have something to sell.

davygp38 · Apr 22, 2011

JRP said:
Has any one seen kits for tractor implements?

I have access to a CNC plasma cutter and have a grapple design about finished. Also thinking about using the CNC to cut out kits of parts and selling them. Sort of like Heathkit was in electronics. My thought was to have all the CNC work pre-cut, along with the pins and bushings. The kit would also include a list of hydraulic parts the customer would get from TSC or perhaps Surplus center.

The customer would unpack the parts, clean them up with a hand grinder, weld them up, paint, and install the hydraulics. I figure fabricating labor and paint is a pretty big chunk of an implement price so the concept could keep price lower. It would be fun. Also, the parts would ship in a smaller package and could be separated into several packages to make shipping UPS possible.

The end result would (could) look store bought and would include an engineering evaluation. It would not look like it was cobbled from the junk pile.

What do you think?

I'm in. I am getting ready to start collecting the steel for a larger than normal grapple bucket. If I could get a kit for just the Grapple jaws, it would make it a lot easier for me, Just add cylinder.:thumbsup:

JRP · Apr 23, 2011

My design is very similar to the Eagle Talon grapple, but scaled down for a smaller machine. (not sure how to copy a hyperlink) The U-tube video is awesome.

Log, Brush and Rock Grapple : Skid Steer Grapple : Quick Attach Attachments, Inc.

YouTube - Quick Attach Eagle Talon Heavy Duty Log Brush & Rock Grapple

I think for most TBN users the 3/4" thick T-1 tool steel is a bit much and would be too heavy. The Bobcat T300 loader in the video can lift 6,000 pounds. My prototype will be 3/8" A516 grade 70 steel, with the tooth thickness doubled up to make it 3/4" thick. Grade 70 is also easier to weld and grind.

What a lot of people don't realize is that stronger steel costs a little more, can be twice as strong, and because it can be less thick the result weighs less. Stronger steel = lighter grapple = greater capacity.

Darren · Apr 23, 2011

I'd be interested in something that would work with loader forks instead of a bucket.

fastback88 · Apr 23, 2011

I'm interested,:thumbsup: what are you thinking for a price how much would it weigh and would it be removable?

IslandTractor · Apr 25, 2011

A grapple kit with CNC cut parts sounds like a great idea but I'd be concerned about a few things.

First is that amateur welders often make inadequate welds (I can imagine people trying to weld a grapple together as their first project with a $125 fluxcore machine from HF).

Second is that such a kit might be close in price to a fully fabricated welder. Once you have the parts cut out and packed for shipment, I'm not sure you would save a whole lot of time compared to cutting the parts and having a pro welding shop put them together. Welders are not all paid North Slope pipe welder wages and I'd guess that a lot of the North Carolina shops putting these grapples together are paying their welders less than $20/hr. If so then that might cut only $100 off the price of the cost of a grapple.

Third, shipping might conceivably be more expensive for the parts. An assembled grapple can be strapped to a pallet and sent out. A pile of loose parts needs to be boxed and might take a bit of time and material just to do that properly before attaching to a pallet. Shipping weight would be the same.

Fourth, there would be loads of customer and tech support issues to deal with that are not seen with an assembled grapple. You'd also have quality problems (hey, my grapple broke the first time I used it!; hey, my grapple looked twisted when I finished welding; hey, I messed up piece #34, please send me another

) that would be blamed on the product and would at least result in bad publicity even if the true problem was the inexperienced home welder.

davygp38 · Apr 26, 2011

Once again Island, the voice of reason. You're right of course. However, a company like Markham used to be. With the right support could have found a niche in a market like this. I could see a product, where some of the structural parts were made longer, so you could cut them to custom bucket width. In my case I would like the option of having CNC cut grapple jaws, with precut holes for the D.O.M, and pins, as well as for the horizontal structural tubing. I could envision, buying 4,5,or,6 jaw plates to add for a more solid set up, or for grabbing finer material.

IslandTractor · Apr 26, 2011

I'm not arguing that there is no market nor do I think many folks would have difficulty with the fabrication but I like the idea of offering either the kit or fully assembled grapple. That way welding amateurs can think through whether it really makes sense to run out to Sears or HF for welding equipment rather than just pay for the company to efficiently weld the thing together before shipping. Again, the question is how much one would really save doing the welding of the kit.

BradDrummond · Jul 2, 2015

Are you making the weld kits?

Reg · Jul 2, 2015

I'm still interested in such a kit for a backhoe thumb. I like the Michigan iron shared pivot one, but for the CO$T
Then I can grab a $49 flux core welder from HF and "have AT it".

Jim Timber · Jul 3, 2015

I can see where you want to use your plasma cutter for a business, but I can have a $250K laser cut my designs for a buck a minute of burn time and the results don't have any post-cut prep needed. I wouldn't buy a kit that came with drossy edges that needed grinding to weld. Use your plasma for prototyping, then farm out the cutting to someone with real equipment. You'll save money in the long run, I guarantee it.

As Evertything Attachments has done, you too would need to have someone not related to the organization/design team build your kit before you attempted marketing it to make sure that your instructions and whatnot were viable in the field. You also need to do some real world testing on your design prior to fielding the beta testers units. CAD is a wonderful thing, but every engineer makes mistakes now and again, or maybe something just doesn't work as well as you thought it would when you conjured one up into the real world. So it sounds like you're a bit ahead of yourself talking about selling these when you don't have proof that yours works as intended.

Don't misconstrue my words - I'm self employed, manufacturing and distributing something I invented, so I wish you the absolute best of luck. I just want you to go down a path set up for success, which is why I'm being critical of your plan. It's a long hard road and the beginning, especially, is slow and painful. The end isn't all ice cream and lollipops either. I spent a good part of the last two days trying to figure out how to overcome a quality issue from my salt bath nitriding vendor - this is the 6th lot I've had them do, and it's the 4th that's been reworked once already. I've been doing these for a little over 2 years now, and the kinks keep on coming.

You'll have logistics issues, and without volume you'll have pricing problems with distribution and materials (another reason to have a bigger shop make your stuff for you - they buy steel cheaper than you can). EA found out their kit wasn't viable, or maybe they didn't think it fit with their business model. Kits are going to be extremely low volume and high labor. If that's all you're doing, maybe it can work. I don't think they wanted to tie up their CS department with the hours of babysitting that might be needed as people put kits together. They control costs with manufactured products; you know how fast your guys can weld them, you know how much it costs to paint the unit, you know what it costs to ship it - so when you set the price you know how much of that stays in your pocket (and remember that Uncle Sam is going to take 1/3 of it). When you offer a kit, you'll have a lot more questions, and post-sale follow up, both of which are unknowns. I'd imagine the lawyers also didn't like that Johnny homeowner might be using a $80 fluxcore machine to weld up their kit and the liability might come back to haunt them.

I started my company out of desperation. I had no ability to hold a job, and still don't, due to mechanical problems with my nerve function in both hands combined with chronic neck pain. There's a lot of days I'd love to just work for someone else and collect a paycheck. Don't quit your day job! I didn't have that option. I was fired because I couldn't perform. Working for myself I can do things as I'm able, but my income isn't what it would be if I was still on someone else's payroll, at least not yet.

kennyd · Jul 3, 2015

Reg said:
Then I can grab a $49 flux core welder from HF and "have AT it".

IMHO, that is exactly why you don't and won't see DIY "kits" from any company.

Jim Timber · Jul 3, 2015

I didn't even notice this was from 2011 when I read the thread today.

Looks like there's more issues to getting kits in circulation than anyone has thought for some time.

Could you imagine the court costs if a mounting plate failed when someone was bucking a log and they got crushed?

Reg · Jul 4, 2015

kennyd said:
IMHO, that is exactly why you don't and won't see DIY "kits" from any company.

Welllll...... I WAS joking, but;
There is any amount of "weld on" things that (unskilled) consumers can and do buy in many areas, not just Ag., then run their HF flux core gun like a hot melt glue gun - done and DONE.
Lookit, I gotta bead, whats wrong with that ?
"Penetration" whats that ? Some sorta *** talk, or what ?

However, a case extant; Backhoe thumbs

franklin2 · Jul 4, 2015

kennyd said:
IMHO, that is exactly why you don't and won't see DIY "kits" from any company.

I don't see the problem. Sell a pile of pre-cut metal parts with no warranty, no guarantee, no promise of them being suitable for what they were designed for. Vague hand drawn picture of how you might want to weld it together, a phone number that no one answers the phone. It's done all the time, although he might have to move to china or sell it through a chinese firm to buffer any lawsuits.

IslandTractor · Jul 4, 2015

How about a well designed kit that uses tabs and slots and bolts to stay together. Bolt it up and then use an HF fluxcore welder to weld the bolts in place.

Reg · Jul 4, 2015

Again, that these people are doing it provides SOME evidence that it can be done.
CDP backhoe

also, these people have been doing it for quite some time and I don't think they are incorporated in a liability protected country.
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