Kioti oil change that went wrong

[747driver]

How did you get antifreeze in your new oil jug again? Someone at your house added it? Why? By accident I hope?
I purchased a gallon jug of mobile 1 oil from Kmart one time and as I was checking out I noticed a small dirty spot near cap. As I looked closer I noticed the cap seal was broken. So. I then opened it to check inside in front of the employee and it was used oil. I'm not sure how this happened but employee said it was not the first time she encountered this. Some one is either returning for refund or a employee is making a big restock mistake of used oil return. Either way watch out when you buy your new oil.

It was by accident. I had thought that the seal was missing due to the person adding oil to the motorhome as i use the same oil. Never gave a thought about people returning oil for refund ...good tip !

 

[747driver]

Is there reason to worry about your other engines? Could he have contaminated other jugs of oil?

No worries about other engines. Just a accident and also me assuming that the seal was missing due to using some for the motorhome that uses the same brand of oil.

 

[747driver]

So after draining the oil again last night i let the engine set empty overnight. Went out this morning and removed the drain plug and saw no antifreeze coming out, just a few cups of oil. I changed the oil filter, no sign of antifreeze. Filled with new oil again and ran tractor for over a half hour, no faulty sounds ! Checked dip stick, clean. Engine still smokes but goes away after about 15 minutes of use. How long does it take to get the air out of the fuel system ?

 

[747driver]

I am back in Illinois for the week, so won't get to the tractor until next monday and tuesday.

Update from the beginning. When i did go to start the engine for the first time after draining the bad junk out, the engine made a clunk sound then started up. The second time i changed the oil and started the engine it started smoothly. I did prime the oil filter the second time as someone suggested he does this to help initial oil flow.

My concern is the white smoke i am getting. Starts out heavy then settles down to a lighter emission after engine is up to temp. but never totally goes away. From what i have researched, white smoke indicates raw fuel is not getting completely burned.I did change the fuel filter. I can hear the engine sputtering sometimes, like it is not getting fuel .

Anyway....it might be going to the dealer next week if i can't figure out something to check when i get back down there. Never had a diesel before....so thanks for letting me ramble !

 

[Coyote machine]

Where are you filling the engine with oil? At the valve/cam cover or at the red oil fill plug, near the injection pump on the side of the engine? It may differ on your model engine, I'm most familiar with the DK series...there may be differences.

 

[747driver]

Where are you filling the engine with oil? At the valve/cam cover or at the red oil fill plug, near the injection pump on the side of the engine? It may differ on your model engine, I'm most familiar with the DK series...there may be differences.

I have a screw cap on top of the valve cover. Yes, i did see a red cap ( it wouldn't come off ) on the side by the injection pump, but the manual says to fill through the top of the valve cover.

 

[Coyote machine]

I have a screw cap on top of the valve cover. Yes, i did see a red cap ( it wouldn't come off ) on the side by the injection pump, but the manual says to fill through the top of the valve cover.

Unless your specific tractor CK-27 series requires that means of filling the crankcase, the way it is supposed to be done is through the red cap, NOT the valve/cam cover because of possible cavitation and air lock issues, where the oil doesn't always get down to the pan as it should.
I can't say absolutely, but I'm sure some other CK series owners can comment, or you can verify it with your dealer.

That being said, you could be seeing smoking because of the coolant and oil being poured through the top of the engine. I'd check the oil level cold to verify the crankcase is full. Then check it again after running it to temp and let it sit for at least 5-10 minutes, and verify level again. If you have to add more oil- do it through the red cap on the side of the engine, unless someone tells you different. Sometimes the manuals are WRONG, not surprisingly.
Don't feel bad, at least you're finding out about it sooner than later. :thumbsup:

Here's my thinking: Since the coolant and oil entered through the top of the engine the smoking is likely related to this process and may eventually dissipate on it's own. Same with whatever amount of coolant 'may be' somewhat trapped at the top of the engine.
Of course their may be air issues with your fuel filter change.
I'd want to verify the fuel bowl is completely sealed at the gasket, where the bowl meets the head unit. Also make sure there is a rubber gasket in place, and not missing. I don't move the lever at all, I just unscrew the bowl, insert the new filter, then crank the engine. You can put fuel in the bowl with the new filter to make for less cranking, but shouldn't have to.

 

[747driver]

Unless your specific tractor CK-27 series requires that means of filling the crankcase, the way it is supposed to be done is through the red cap, NOT the valve/cam cover because of possible cavitation and air lock issues, where the oil doesn't always get down to the pan as it should.
I can't say absolutely, but I'm sure some other CK series owners can comment, or you can verify it with your dealer.

That being said, you could be seeing smoking because of the coolant and oil being poured through the top of the engine. I'd check the oil level cold to verify the crankcase is full. Then check it again after running it to temp and let it sit for at least 5-10 minutes, and verify level again. If you have to add more oil- do it through the red cap on the side of the engine, unless someone tells you different. Sometimes the manuals are WRONG, not surprisingly.
Don't feel bad, at least you're finding out about it sooner than later. :thumbsup:

Here's my thinking: Since the coolant and oil entered through the top of the engine the smoking is likely related to this process and may eventually dissipate on it's own. Same with whatever amount of coolant 'may be' somewhat trapped at the top of the engine.
Of course their may be air issues with your fuel filter change.
I'd want to verify the fuel bowl is completely sealed at the gasket, where the bowl meets the head unit. Also make sure there is a rubber gasket in place, and not missing. I don't move the lever at all, I just unscrew the bowl, insert the new filter, then crank the engine. You can put fuel in the bowl with the new filter to make for less cranking, but shouldn't have to.

Thanks so much for the reply ! I have drained the oil twice since i put the bad oil in. Have operated the tractor for 30 minutes after each oil change. After both times i check the dip stick before starting the engine and 10 minutes after engine shutdown, it has shown full with no antifreeze or off coloring showing. I did pull new fuel filter and the bowl was full. Both o-rings were present as well. I will call the dealer.

 

[747driver]

I downloaded the CK27,30,35 workshop manual. It says to fill oil from the valve cover port. No mention of the side oil filler port with red cap.

 

[Coyote machine]

Do you have the link handy? I'd like to see that for myself. I'd still check with your selling dealer. I know my dealer pointed out to use the red cap filler on my DK-35 and DK-40 series Kioti's. I suppose it is possible there is something different about the CK-series, BUT why would the red cap be there if not for using for oil fill?
Thanks,

CM

 

[747driver]

Do you have the link handy? I'd like to see that for myself. I'd still check with your selling dealer. I know my dealer pointed out to use the red cap filler on my DK-35 and DK-40 series Kioti's. I suppose it is possible there is something different about the CK-series, BUT why would the red cap be there if not for using for oil fill?
Thanks,

CM

As soon as i can find it i will post

 

[crashz]

I second the air issue. The white smoke could be a sign of an air leak into the fuel system, not allowing the injectors to fire at the correct time (air is compressing in the lines. I'd double check your fuel filter bowl to make sure the seal is not kinked or compromised and is tight. Any dripping there when sitting? White smoke is incomplete combustion (usually) and can be a direct result of air in the system.

The oil fill on many engines (not familiar with Kiotis) is preferred at the timing cover as its a direct link to the crankcase. Its preferred only because it won't burp back due to filling faster than it drains, like the head. But it only takes another minute or two to drain down from the head. So either would be OK to fill. I think they add the two ports for convenience. My JD has the two, and the valve cover one is harder to fill from unless you prop the hood way up and not use a funnel.

 

[TomSeller]

Unless your specific tractor CK-27 series requires that means of filling the crankcase, the way it is supposed to be done is through the red cap, NOT the valve/cam cover because of possible cavitation and air lock issues, where the oil doesn't always get down to the pan as it should.
I can't say absolutely, but I'm sure some other CK series owners can comment, or you can verify it with your dealer.
.

There is a good point being made by CM here, why else would there be the red cap fill point? That said and if there is an air lock and if coolant (being heavier than oil) is trapped there.... Would it not make sense to continue filling from the valve/cam cover in hopes of "displacing" the coolant as the oil rushes in? I assume it eventually has t drain down? Or can be checked with the dipstick. Then when all concerns are gone start using the red cap? Not sure how the cavitation comes into play.

 

[DK35vince]

I remember reading some issues a while back were some owners pored the oil to fast into the valve cover and oil overflowed in the cover and got down the crankcase vent tube into the intake.
The tractors rapped real bad on start up do to the oil trying to hydro lock the engine and smoked real bad till the oil burned off.
If you fill the oil through the valve cover, pore slowly (or at least don't try poring as fast as it will come out of the bottle) or it could cause possible engine damage if it gets down the vent tube.

 

[Coyote machine]

I remember reading some issues a while back were some owners pored the oil to fast into the valve cover and oil overflowed in the cover and got down the crankcase vent tube into the intake.
The tractors rapped real bad on start up do to the oil trying to hydro lock the engine and smoked real bad till the oil burned off.
If you fill the oil through the valve cover, pore slowly (or at least don't try poring as fast as it will come out of the bottle) or it could cause possible engine damage if it gets down the vent tube.

That's IT! Thanks for remembering the details, DK35vince. The hydro lock was what I meant to say, not cavitation; (but I'm not real sure what if any difference there is between the two?).

Anyway, it seems the CK series red cap is smaller than the one on the DK series, maybe making it more prudent to fill oil from the valve cover than at the red cap. Though doing so may be easier, as DK35vince said, too much flow could cause problems with the oil's passing to the crankcase without restriction.

 

[tman1020]

I have the red/orange cap on my ct 225 (white ck 27) and my manual states to fill from it instead of valve cover. This may be the problem but I would change filter again and double check every thing there with the service manual ( spring, seal, air, any cracks ) just to be sure.

 

[Coyote machine]

I have the red/orange cap on my ct 225 (white ck 27) and my manual states to fill from it instead of valve cover. This may be the problem but I would change filter again and double check every thing there with the service manual ( spring, seal, air, any cracks ) just to be sure.

Exactly what I've been driving at from the first post I made about this. I was not sure if it applied to the CK series because I've never seen how their oil fill ports are set up. Yours is obviously a Bobcat, (white version of Kioti).

There seems to be some confusion in the different manuals, workshop manuals, etc., but one thing is clear. Filling the crankcase at the lowest available port is best; second choice is at the valve cover, BUT slowly, so to not create a hydro lock event.

 

[747driver]

All very good and valid comments ! When i go back down next monday the first think i am doing is pulling both oil drain plugs and getting a small sample to see if there is any sign of antifreeze. If all is clean i will install a new clean filter and new oil. I will fill the oil at the red cap instead of the top valve cover. Someone at work today asked me if i filled the fuel bowl up before installing it. I did not fill bowl, make any difference ? The tractor started up ok. My farm tractor guys at work said to just keep operating the tractor for a couple of hrs and things should start to clear up....i have have only ran it for a half hour or so.

 

[747driver]

Here is the posting for the workshop manuals you can download. Go to post #40 for the link to download.


Kioti Workshop Manual CK25/27/30/35
Started by krazsk, 02-05-2011 07:26 PM

 

[Coyote machine]

All very good and valid comments ! When i go back down next monday the first think i am doing is pulling both oil drain plugs and getting a small sample to see if there is any sign of antifreeze. If all is clean i will install a new clean filter and new oil. I will fill the oil at the red cap instead of the top valve cover. Someone at work today asked me if i filled the fuel bowl up before installing it. I did not fill bowl, make any difference ? The tractor started up ok. My farm tractor guys at work said to just keep operating the tractor for a couple of hrs and things should start to clear up....i have have only ran it for a half hour or so.

Filling the fuel bowl can make for less cranking to purge air, but if the petcock is left in the off position then opened when the new filter is closed in the bowl it shouldn't take long cranking to suck fuel in and start the engine.
I wouldn't be overly worried about that, so long as there are no air leaks allowing air into the fuel system's pressurized side.

And running it may help clear things up.
You won't be able to 'see' coolant unless there is a fair amount of it present. I'd take a clean sample of crankcase oil and send it out for analysis. This will give you a reference point to work from. Oil analysis will give you PPM of whatever is in the oil.