The younger workforce.

   / The younger workforce. #141  
Here at James Madison University, they just hired a new football coach at $300,000 per year for a five year contract. Being a state school, I'm paying him with tax dollars.

mark
 
   / The younger workforce. #142  
Here at James Madison University, they just hired a new football coach at $300,000 per year for a five year contract. Being a state school, I'm paying him with tax dollars.

mark

Go Dukes! JMU is sure growing.

A friends son goes to MSU as an out of stater, don't know what he's paying, but don't think it's too outrageous from talking to him. Scholarships make the difference, not everyone pays "MSRP".
 
   / The younger workforce. #143  
Resident for MSU - 13,612 ( 907 per credit hour )
Non resident $36,412 !! ( $2427 per credit )

MSU is also on semesters now, not quarters as back when I went there. Nevertheless, the increase in
costs is outrageous. Part of that has to do with federal student loan programs, which are
now nationalized.

Student debt in the US is now in the trillions....who wants to bet that much of this debt will
never be paid off, even tho the interest rates are artificially low?
 
   / The younger workforce. #144  
Here's a direct cut and past from the MSU website.

In-State Freshmen

Tuition and fees (15 credits/semester): $13,612
Room and board (double room/Silver Meal Plan): $9,524

Total for two semesters: $23,136

That total is for room AND board for two semesters.

If you are lower income, and fill out the FAFSA, and get decent grades in high school and keep them up in college, you can get that tuition reduced by way more than half.

We got no financial assistance. My kid's tuition for Purdue was around $4K per year after merit scholarships instead of the $10K quoted to us. So 4 years of college for $12,000. What kills you is the room and board.
 
   / The younger workforce. #145  
Room and Board is almost a rite of passage... at least it seems so.

The SF Bay Area has many fine Universities and most kids I know want very much to go off to school.

Just don't see why for most...

I commuted from home and saved a bundle... it also let me keep my two part time jobs.

Both my brothers moved out... one got a job that included room and board if living in a barn counts... he was the weekend help/manager for a large horse boarding facility all during his 4 years at Berkeley and commuted with a 400 cc motorcycle which was great for campus parking.

The other brother had friends desperate for a roommate after one left... so he fell into a good deal across the street from Cal State East Bay...

Many I know did get full or partial scholarships... some academic and some athletic... a lot of our older (26-28) new hire nurses used their military benefits...

I do believe not everyone going to college should and even more so if they are racking up significant debt...
 
   / The younger workforce. #146  
....

I do believe not everyone going to college should and even more so if they are racking up significant debt...

I agree. We have several friends who's children had to come home after the first semester or first year. Some couldn't make the grades. Some weren't sure why they went in the first place. Some got into party distraction trouble. However, for the most part, the ones that came home then went to the local campus of Indiana University or they switched to IVY Tech (vocational college), got part time jobs, lived at home for a couple semesters, rented apartments with friends and started turning things around again. Everyone is a little different. A good support system is a great safety net should things take a turn.
 
   / The younger workforce. #147  
I probably shouldn't admit this... for me one of the benefits of earning my engineering degree is I would not be shutout by not having one.

It was the key to opening doors... once the door was open you still had to prove yourself... I know some very capable individuals that never went to college or higher education... can only imagine how far they could have gone with one.

My farming side of the family were not so supportive and had reservations... they said going off to college ruined a lot people... they no longer knew how to work.

Thankfully, I was able to overcome their hesitations and be the first on Mom's side of the family to go to college.

Mom spent her career as a registered nurse... she had no college.

She learned on the job over 4 years working in a Catholic Hospital where most all the nurses were nuns... she was a Diploma Nurse which basically does not exist anymore.

She did have her issues with new BSRN grads... she said they have all the education and now she would have to teach them how to apply it.
 
   / The younger workforce. #148  
Sadly, many smart people just don't do well in the educational environment. Maybe the wave of school shootings attest to this. Not much tolerence for the different. The pack mentality rules. I guess, until someone shows up with a gun.

What is education anyway? Mostly just proving you can remember something that someone taught you. Doesn't mean you're smart. Just that you can remember well.
 
   / The younger workforce. #149  
I used to hate those courses in which a tape recorder could have gotten a perfect grade.

Bruce
 
   / The younger workforce. #150  
I probably shouldn't admit this... for me one of the benefits of earning my engineering degree is I would not be shutout by not having one.

It was the key to opening doors... once the door was open you still had to prove yourself... I know some very capable individuals that never went to college or higher education... can only imagine how far they could have gone with one.

My farming side of the family were not so supportive and had reservations... they said going off to college ruined a lot people... they no longer knew how to work.

Thankfully, I was able to overcome their hesitations and be the first on Mom's side of the family to go to college.

Mom spent her career as a registered nurse... she had no college.

She learned on the job over 4 years working in a Catholic Hospital where most all the nurses were nuns... she was a Diploma Nurse which basically does not exist anymore.

She did have her issues with new BSRN grads... she said they have all the education and now she would have to teach them how to apply it.

I hear you about having a degree. I have two associate degrees in electronics. That's what got me in the door. After that, I have 29 years of on the job training. Without going into great detail, they have literally tens of thousands of dollars invested in me in factory training on heavy machinery, computer software and hardware and management training. I'm the only person in the building that can do every other production person's job, including the managers. However, about 4-5 years ago, corporate took over all I.T. operations(and I.T. is where I landed), and they only hire people with certification. All it matters to them is that those people have great looking resume's. They don't take into account that they have never been at a job longer than three years. All those types of people do is get a job, have their employer pay for certification, then look for another job that pays more. They don't actually do anything but try and implement what they learned in school, without taking into account how it affects 24/7 production. I can't count the number of systems we've started implementing and ended up tearing it out before it was even completed satisfactorily. Its quite frustrating. And.... once you start getting up there in age, and they've been giving you a 25 or 50 cent raise every year, all of a sudden, after 30 years, you're make $10 an hour more than new hires, some bean counter thinks they can hire two kids to replace on old timer (doesn't matter that you do the work of three)... so they give you a unique job title, then eliminate that position in 6 months and quote Sipowizc 10:42 :rolleyes:
 
   / The younger workforce. #152  
I used to hate those courses in which a tape recorder could have gotten a perfect grade.

Bruce

I used to read my school course notes to myself into a tape recorder, then put an earphone in and listen to myself on repeat all night long, very night. OMG was it dull, as I have a monotone voice. :laughing: Anyhow, I'd do that every week and pass the class tests no problem. :thumbsup:
 
   / The younger workforce. #153  
I hear you about having a degree. I have two associate degrees in electronics. That's what got me in the door. After that, I have 29 years of on the job training. Without going into great detail, they have literally tens of thousands of dollars invested in me in factory training on heavy machinery, computer software and hardware and management training. I'm the only person in the building that can do every other production person's job, including the managers. However, about 4-5 years ago, corporate took over all I.T. operations(and I.T. is where I landed), and they only hire people with certification. All it matters to them is that those people have great looking resume's. They don't take into account that they have never been at a job longer than three years. All those types of people do is get a job, have their employer pay for certification, then look for another job that pays more. They don't actually do anything but try and implement what they learned in school, without taking into account how it affects 24/7 production. I can't count the number of systems we've started implementing and ended up tearing it out before it was even completed satisfactorily. Its quite frustrating. And.... once you start getting up there in age, and they've been giving you a 25 or 50 cent raise every year, all of a sudden, after 30 years, you're make $10 an hour more than new hires, some bean counter thinks they can hire two kids to replace on old timer (doesn't matter that you do the work of three)... so they give you a unique job title, then eliminate that position in 6 months and quote Sipowizc 10:42 :rolleyes:

You might be describing the next chapter of my career...

Twenty Five years on the job and we are again being sold and the new group doesn't know what to do with me... as they, the very large parent organization, don't have anyone anywhere that covers the positions I do... I was told by my site manager they are trying to come up with a way to keep me and working on a unique job description for my position.

One thing they do not want me to do is leave before the transition is complete.

It's kind of ironic because last year I asked where things were headed and the comment was "I certainly hope you are not considering leaving... especially since the proposed merger comes with an assortment of big company benefits... like a real retirement program"

The new hires I brought in last year and the year before are very close compensation wise to me... they had to be more competitive at the lower end and froze the top end...

I do know where all the bones are buried in a good way since I'm the only one left that was on the team when the new facility was built from the ground up 20 years ago... this may or may not matter to the new organization... it could very well be something like not being missed until you're gone.

More to come...
 
   / The younger workforce. #154  
My father warned me about being older and being "promoted" to some crazy, unique job title, and really given nothing new to do, or even less work than before. He said that's when you're on your way out. When he was nearing 65, his company's owner asked him what date he was going to retire. My father said he had no plans to retire. My folks had run into some tough financial times with a previous layoff of my father, medical bills, etc... and he wanted to get back in the black before considering retiring. They told him "Everyone retires here at 65." and tried to force him to retire. He got a lawyer and threatened age discrimination. So they promoted him to a unique job title and eliminated the position 6 months later. Unfortunately for them, they did not realize my father was one of only 2-3 people in the state with a certain certification and an official seal that had to be on all of their products. He let them hire him back as a consultant for $250 per hour with a 4 hour minimum! :D And he started his own business and had too much work and had to turn people away. In just a couple years he was able to pay off all of his debts and save some money and get set for retirement. :thumbsup:
 
   / The younger workforce. #155  
Sounds like a true silver lining...

What was your Dad's certification?

Between my last post and this one I had a call to go in... plumbing issues which I made quick work of since I keep a little of everything in house for just such situations...

Over 100,000 surgeries and never cancelled a single one due to a problem with the facility or equipment...
 
   / The younger workforce. #157  
If the slackers don't have the work ethic you just can't make a profit out of them. It's such a shame you can't use the whip any more, to really make 'em learn the meaning of who's boss and what real work means. Boss man sure needs to keep up his living standards up at the big house, yes siree.

Let me guess. You have never put everything you own on the line for your business. That's OK, some of us are Bosses, and some of us are slackers...

There are bosses and there are 'slavedrivers', which are you? And if you think the world is only made up of just two types of people, bosses and slackers, then you have very limited vision.

I'm going to have to agree with Steppenwolfe on this. My guess is that you feel put out if your boss criticizes you or expects some extra effort. And you've probably never had to pay employees out of your own pocket.

If you had a plumber or an electrician or a mechanic do some work for you and they were slow, talkative or otherwise inefficient, wouldn't you question their bill if they were billing you by the hour? That's basically what slacker employees are doing. You also responded to the "buy 2 people" comment, but that's essentially what a business/boss is doing - they're buying your time for an agreed upon amount per hour. If they're not getting some value for that cost, then either you need to step it up or they need to cut you loose. I've worked in factories, as a laborer, for "slave drivers" and also in national accounting firms as an accounting professional. No matter what, I needed to be making a lot more money for "the man" than I was being paid or they couldn't afford to keep me. When you've actually been the one that's responsible for paying people out of your business' checkbook (which is YOUR money), you'll change your snarky tune about keeping the man in the big house.

I got rid of my last employees back in 2003. I had a couple of really good employees, but unfortunately the slackers finally convinced me that it just wasn't worth messing with them any more. I'm making more money and have more free time and have less headaches just managing me.

Back in 2000, I was at the peak of number of employees at 6. I had one woman (who was my age - late 30's at the time) whose kids played soccer. Every Monday morning, after she was done using my company internet to do her home banking, would stand in the confluence of where 3 other offices came together. She'd stand in the doorway and tie up 3 other people with a kick by kick account of her kids' tournaments from the weekend. This could go on for over an hour. I was paying these 4 people $75k (the storyteller), $39k, $45k, $35k which was a raw cost of just under $100 per hour - not counting employer taxes, benefits, etc. which would push that up to closer to $150/hr. Their billing rates ran from $50-100/hr so not only was I paying them for listening to her stupid story, I was deprived of the opportunity for them to make me money. I would have been better off to hand each of them $20 at the beginning of her story and ask them to be productive. But, I guess I'm just a slave driver.
 
   / The younger workforce. #158  
They told him "Everyone retires here at 65." and tried to force him to retire.

That's one of the things I really appreciate about my choice of engineering as a career path. They keep asking me when I'm gong to retire and then try to talk me out of it by offering other opportunities.
 
   / The younger workforce. #159  
You might be describing the next chapter of my career...<snip>

One thing they do not want me to do is leave before the transition is complete.
Of course, it reads like they will have to hire three people to cover what you do for the present management.
It's kind of ironic because last year I asked where things were headed and the comment was "I certainly hope you are not considering leaving... especially since the proposed merger comes with an assortment of big company benefits... like a real retirement program"

The new hires I brought in last year and the year before are very close compensation wise to me... they had to be more competitive at the lower end and froze the top end...

I do know where all the bones are buried in a good way since I'm the only one left that was on the team when the new facility was built from the ground up 20 years ago... this may or may not matter to the new organization... it could very well be something like not being missed until you're gone.

More to come...
Have you considered you might have been a selling point for the old management? If you walked away how much would you be making for NOT working?
 
   / The younger workforce. #160  
Back in '64, I tried college and didn't like it. I got my draft notice in '66. I enlisted instead and got into an area where they taught me how to use big computers. Got out and had many companies competing for my skills. I retired as an IT director 40 years later.

I told my kids and grand kids that a good vocational school where you learn a skill is way better than a college where you learn stuff. When I was hiring, the skills the candidates had outweighed the degrees.
 

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