Could our small farm go all electric?

[JamesHW]

Of course anything is possible and was hoping a discussion could help us refine our ideas and contribute towards furthering our goals.

Recently I retired and our time frame for locating to the property is a couple of years on. Financially we do not want to over extend ourselves finacially while we ease into farming.

We just this winter were able to get 5 acres of an old overgrown 6 acre ag field cleared of trees and stumps. The field is mostly level and is made of well drained, silty-loamy soil on top of sand (remaining from Lake Albany). To pay for the clearing we had harvested timber on about a third of the 80 acres, resulting in about a mile of trails and clearings. Now that the field is cleared and our trails and clearings are in place, our heavy equipment needs have been reduced dramatically.

About 24 acres of our 80 are ravines with streams or springs and about an acre of vernal areas. The entire property appears to have an substratum of water (our well point is at 25 foot) that I believe are glacial deposits. We have an old house we are fixing up to make habitable year around and currently no barn (the old 1870's 3-bay English barn was taken down by an even older Maple tree about a decade ago). My plans short term are a shipping container or two to hold and secure equipment when we are not around.

I was thinking of an electric UTV with towable implements that we would buy or make could allow us to work the land. Our plans are to stay all organic, using rotation and cover crops on the land. No final decision on what crops to grow, but we are interested in growing asparagus and have a nice market garden. A friend wants us to grow alfalfa for his pigs. Farm distilleries are now a thing in NY and one of the things the state requires is some percentage of the ingredients needs to be sourced within the state. That would seem to make organic corn a possible cash crop. I was interested in hops and may try a small crop, but the requirements of a short window to harvest and specialized equipment and/or manpower makes more than a small crop of hops daunting.

Currently we have no plans for livestock other than chickens for meat and eggs, although goats and pigs are an area of interest and study. I definitely want to keep bees, though I don't see that as much of a profit area, at least initially. Another consideration is part of our retirement plan is to rent campsites on the land. An electric UTV or even repurposed golf carts could be utilized to maintain and service the campsites with a minimum of noise.

I was thinking a solar station with a battery bank adjacent to our shipping containers to allow charging and provide power for tools. It would be about 140 yard run to run electric from the house. Interestingly, shortly after the land was cleared we received an offer to install a solar generation array on the property, but we have not seriously considered it (wonder if they fly around scouting locations or if it was just a coincidence?). I have to say not having to deal with storing fuel is attractive.

 

[zzvyb6]

What does "work the land" mean to you ? (Mow grass, plant corn, pick grapes, bale hay, tree farm, pumpkin tours, plow snow, Apple Cider Brewing Co., etc). Electric works if you just want to ride around a few times going slower and slower each 1000 feet. Make this up by buying several electric UTV's (maybe 3 or 4) so you can at least finish a major job on that much property (be sure to stash them at strategic stations there, too. Otherwise there's some serious walking and pushing involved. If the in-vogue "carbon footprint minimization" strategy makes your day, get a team of horses (as in 'draft horses') to power your "land working". There's a reason that "back in the day" draft horses were used instead of quarter horse models. (Still it only takes TWO HORSEPOWER, right ?). And there was a reason you needed a step ladder to climb up on one. And they eat while you sleep, continuously.

I use an electric AND a gas golf cart for riding around on my similar situation. Electric for winter (traction and starting), gas for spring summer and fall (range, durability, trailer hitch, 12V battery for remote power (lights and chain saw sharpener). The gas one also serves to push the electric one home when the volts times amps stb's. I use a green, current, diesel job with a loader for the rest of the deal.

The only real question is how much power YOU need to run, enjoy, or 'work' your land. Human power, electric power, horse power or carbon based.

I'm submitting that you will best be served by a 'small', modern, efficient, reliable and handsome diesel powered tractor. Cut/mow, auxilliary power, move stuff, pull stuff, grade roads, driveway and lanes, push snow, drill fence posts, pump water, split wood and lots of other unforseen jobs.

Otherwise, you are going to be worn out from all this farming effort and want to go back to work! There's a reason its called 'retirement'. You break an arm or a leg, get hit on the head, fall down, trip over a stump, rip an artery or suffer a stroke or heart attack, retirement won't get you very much.

I have windmills, had horses, raised crops and did the farming thing, but retirement for me means enjoying Life's end-game. That's my opinion and I'm unanimous with it...:dance1:

 

[Industrial Toys]

I don't believe there is a suitable electric machine. If there was, it would be a concept machine and not affordable. I think the motor in my JD E-Gator costs something like four grand CDN to replace. The axle and main controller have similar costs. I'm babying that vehicle! It has 8 large (and expensive) 6 volt batteries that are hard pressed just to give you a day of transport never mind doing some kind of ground engaging work (even if it could).

You just can't get around the laws of physics. I guess a person could always have themselves frozen and then when you are unthawed, first hope that civilization still exists and maybe free-energy has been mastered.

 

[JRobyn]

I don't believe there is a suitable electric machine. If there was, it would be a concept machine and not affordable. I think the motor in my JD E-Gator costs something like four grand CDN to replace. The axle and main controller have similar costs. I'm babying that vehicle! It has 8 large (and expensive) 6 volt batteries that are hard pressed just to give you a day of transport never mind doing some kind of ground engaging work (even if it could).

You just can't get around the laws of physics. I guess a person could always have themselves frozen and then when you are unthawed, first hope that civilization still exists and maybe free-energy has been mastered.

Might consider Li-I.

I've got a Polaris Ranger EV, currently with flooded lead acid batteries. Like you say, it has its limitations. But Xfaxman on here will tell you about his significant experience over several years with his. Certainly QUITE capable for farm chores! Li-I batteries would vastly improve those limitations, but they ARE expensive. Particularly to buy a new, factory Li-I vehicle.

My solution is to buy a used EV for a reasonable cost and then to replace the FLA battery set with a turn-key Li-I "kit" that has recently become commercially available and seems to be well thought out and tested. Still pricey, but nowhere near as much as a new Li-I.

 

[JamesHW]

I don't believe there is a suitable electric machine. If there was, it would be a concept machine and not affordable. I think the motor in my JD E-Gator costs something like four grand CDN to replace. The axle and main controller have similar costs. I'm babying that vehicle! It has 8 large (and expensive) 6 volt batteries that are hard pressed just to give you a day of transport never mind doing some kind of ground engaging work (even if it could).

You just can't get around the laws of physics. I guess a person could always have themselves frozen and then when you are unthawed, first hope that civilization still exists and maybe free-energy has been mastered.

I was wondering the same thing (thanks for replying). Researching what is available I came across this fellow comparing the Intimidator Electric UTV vs. HuntVe Switchback. The video is 41 minutes long but watchable. In it he easily drag a 500 pound log up an incline without breaking a sweat. The manual for the Intimidator EV states towing capacity 1,500 pounds on level ground with a 200 pound tongue weight on rear towing bracket, 300 pounds on the front. The vehicle has a differential and transmission that are driven by its eight 6 volt batteries. Problem with the Intimidator is no dealer anywhere near my place.

Couldn't find a lot on the range on the Intimidator but I believe they mention on one of their videos 15 miles in rough terrain. My field is .10 miles long and flat, so if we for the sake of argument say pulling an implement that engages the soil is twice as hard on the batteries as rough terrain that gives us 7.5 miles, or 75 passes on the field. Have not tested the soil yet, but estimate it ranges from sandy-silty to sandy-loamy, is clean with no roots or rocks and should not be hard to breakup by plowing or tilling. Once tested I should know if the soil needs and amending and my initial plan is to do some clean up, till it and plant cover crops such as clover.

 

[JamesHW]

Might consider Li-I.

I've got a Polaris Ranger EV, currently with flooded lead acid batteries. Like you say, it has its limitations. But Xfaxman on here will tell you about his significant experience over several years with his. Certainly QUITE capable for farm chores! Li-I batteries would vastly improve those limitations, but they ARE expensive. Particularly to buy a new, factory Li-I vehicle.

My solution is to buy a used EV for a reasonable cost and then to replace the FLA battery set with a turn-key Li-I "kit" that has recently become commercially available and seems to be well thought out and tested. Still pricey, but nowhere near as much as a new Li-I.

Thanks, I will research Xfaxman's posts. Interesting idea on the Li-I conversion.

Maybe you take a look at Intimidator video and see how it measures up against the Polaris Ranger EV?

 

[RalphVa]

Good luck. Didn't even know they had EV UTs. Wish they had electric tractors and pickups.

Got the solar panels: near 10k$ for 3.5 kw.

Ralph

 

[buickanddeere]

Of course anything is possible and was hoping a discussion could help us refine our ideas and contribute towards furthering our goals.

Recently I retired and our time frame for locating to the property is a couple of years on. Financially we do not want to over extend ourselves finacially while we ease into farming.

We just this winter were able to get 5 acres of an old overgrown 6 acre ag field cleared of trees and stumps. The field is mostly level and is made of well drained, silty-loamy soil on top of sand (remaining from Lake Albany). To pay for the clearing we had harvested timber on about a third of the 80 acres, resulting in about a mile of trails and clearings. Now that the field is cleared and our trails and clearings are in place, our heavy equipment needs have been reduced dramatically.

About 24 acres of our 80 are ravines with streams or springs and about an acre of vernal areas. The entire property appears to have an substratum of water (our well point is at 25 foot) that I believe are glacial deposits. We have an old house we are fixing up to make habitable year around and currently no barn (the old 1870's 3-bay English barn was taken down by an even older Maple tree about a decade ago). My plans short term are a shipping container or two to hold and secure equipment when we are not around.

I was thinking of an electric UTV with towable implements that we would buy or make could allow us to work the land. Our plans are to stay all organic, using rotation and cover crops on the land. No final decision on what crops to grow, but we are interested in growing asparagus and have a nice market garden. A friend wants us to grow alfalfa for his pigs. Farm distilleries are now a thing in NY and one of the things the state requires is some percentage of the ingredients needs to be sourced within the state. That would seem to make organic corn a possible cash crop. I was interested in hops and may try a small crop, but the requirements of a short window to harvest and specialized equipment and/or manpower makes more than a small crop of hops daunting.

Currently we have no plans for livestock other than chickens for meat and eggs, although goats and pigs are an area of interest and study. I definitely want to keep bees, though I don't see that as much of a profit area, at least initially. Another consideration is part of our retirement plan is to rent campsites on the land. An electric UTV or even repurposed golf carts could be utilized to maintain and service the campsites with a minimum of noise.

I was thinking a solar station with a battery bank adjacent to our shipping containers to allow charging and provide power for tools. It would be about 140 yard run to run electric from the house. Interestingly, shortly after the land was cleared we received an offer to install a solar generation array on the property, but we have not seriously considered it (wonder if they fly around scouting locations or if it was just a coincidence?). I have to say not having to deal with storing fuel is attractive.

There are grand intentions then there is where your cost vs benefit ratio resides with long term projects . For example many parents start out with washable diapers and feeding the child all organic home prepared foods .
Some time and a child or two later . It's disposable diapers and food choices tend to be what is on sale .
If there is utility power running down the front of your property line . If you do the install and maintenance yourself . The solar PV cells, batteries and inverters will require replacement about the break even point of "utility savings".
Success with "green power" depends if your home is mostly fossil propane fridge, stove, water heater, domestic heat and clothes dryer. With " green" just operating lights , TV and microwave.
Connected to the grid without telling the utility you have solar panels and a grid tie inverter is an option. The solar will supply the daytime electricity instead of purchasing mid day peak rate power from the utility .
Of course solar power is about nil for three months of the winter due to short days, dim sun and snow covered panels.
How deep are your pockets and how many hours a week do you wish to spend working up a sweat.

 

[stuckmotor]

Interestingly, shortly after the land was cleared we received an offer to install a solar generation array on the property, but we have not seriously considered it (wonder if they fly around scouting locations or if it was just a coincidence?). I have to say not having to deal with storing fuel is attractive.

I'm curious about the offer to install the solar generation array. Was this from someone who wanted to use your land to generate solar power so they could sell it or from someone who wanted to sell you solar pannels? There's an outfit sending out a color brochure asking properry owners with 3 phase power lines to let them install solar farms on their property.

 

[dickfoster]

Spare me please. Take away the gubberment subsidies (taxes on the rest of us) and all of this solar and wind stuff is pure nonsense, physics and economics say so. If you care to look and do the math even the so called environmentally friendly cars like Tesla's are running mostly on coal or other fossil fuels. That is unless the tooth fairy is putting the electricity in the sockets to charge the things up.

I love organic too, the gas and diesel in my fuel tanks are organic and so are most plastics.
Organic matter, matter that has come from a once-living organism, is capable of decay or the product of decay, or is composed of organic compounds.
Organic chemistry, chemistry involving organic compounds or more simply, Organic compound, a compound that contains carbon.

Wanna make yourself a million in farming, then start with two million. Nothing is free and there are no free lunches, everything costs something for someone, somewhere. Try to get something for free and you're more likely end up paying double.

 

[FatTire]

Spare me please. Take away the gubberment subsidies (taxes on the rest of us) and all of this solar and wind stuff is pure nonsense, physics and economics say so. If you care to look and do the math even the so called environmentally friendly cars like Tesla's are running mostly on coal or other fossil fuels. That is unless the tooth fairy is putting the electricity in the sockets to charge the things up.

I love organic too, the gas and diesel in my fuel tanks are organic and so are most plastics.
Organic matter, matter that has come from a once-living organism, is capable of decay or the product of decay, or is composed of organic compounds.
Organic chemistry, chemistry involving organic compounds or more simply, Organic compound, a compound that contains carbon.

Wanna make yourself a million in farming, then start with two million. Nothing is free and there are no free lunches, everything costs something for someone, somewhere. Try to get something for free and you're more likely end up paying double.

Its true that the transition to renewable energy is being subsidized big-time. The oil/gas firms are also subsidized, as well as the auto industry, farming, and a whole ton of other stuff. Sometimes society is better off for it, sometimes not.

We live off-grid, not so much by choice as by the fact that the power grid ends about 5 miles below us. We've never yet run a generator, demonstrating it is possible to live within the amount of PV power that a 2kw array can produce in a sunny location. We use propane for hot water (on-demand) and for cooking, a total of about 100 gallons per year. Our electrical consumption is about 20% of the "average" American household, yet we have live a very comfortable life. The only thing we don't have is a clothes dryer. Having said all that, I don't really see the point of the Tesla, at least not yet. As pointed out above, since most of the charging is done at night, basically they are burning coal or natural gas to drive. And I'm happy with a gasoline UTV and diesel equipment, I can't see installing a huge PV array for vehicle/equipment charging, especially since our equipment use is quite high during long snow storms. Others might have different preferences and different requirements.

 

[dickfoster]

I'd rather all subsidies end right now this very instant for everything. Subsidies are what politicians do to pay back for all those contributions to keep their rear ends planted in those seats. Let's put things on a level table and see what happens for a change.
There are good reasons for solar and other forms of electricity if you can't get to the grid, then it makes some sense but solar will never and can never be a decent source to power the grid. It's just plain nonsense when there are other forms of energy, other than fossil fuels, so much more suitable for that available. All we have to do is do it but the politicians have other interests, their own mostly.

 

[JamesHW]

There are grand intentions then there is where your cost vs benefit ratio resides with long term projects . For example many parents start out with washable diapers and feeding the child all organic home prepared foods .
Some time and a child or two later . It's disposable diapers and food choices tend to be what is on sale .
If there is utility power running down the front of your property line . If you do the install and maintenance yourself . The solar PV cells, batteries and inverters will require replacement about the break even point of "utility savings".
Success with "green power" depends if your home is mostly fossil propane fridge, stove, water heater, domestic heat and clothes dryer. With " green" just operating lights , TV and microwave.
Connected to the grid without telling the utility you have solar panels and a grid tie inverter is an option. The solar will supply the daytime electricity instead of purchasing mid day peak rate power from the utility .
Of course solar power is about nil for three months of the winter due to short days, dim sun and snow covered panels.
How deep are your pockets and how many hours a week do you wish to spend working up a sweat.

This is not really an "off the grid" idea, though perhaps I wasn't clear. At least for 2-3 years the EV would only get periodic use, probably something like 4-5 weeks spread out from April through September and would be stored during the rest of the year in the shipping container.

My thoughts on solar were more as a power source for my storage container with the ability to charge the UTV and provide a trickle charge as well as provide power to the containers for lights and maybe a WIFI repeater and security camera. If the cost of the solar doesn't compute then recharging and trickle charging while stored would need to be run from the house or the container placed closer to the house where we have electric, NG and cable TV. For power outages I am thinking an NG Generac. The house currently has no central heat, was always a summer house.

Snow on solar panels could be a concern and is an interesting problem if someone isn't around to clean them off. I was thinking of placement at the northern end of the field for max sun. Panels would be tilted at a more severe angle during Winter months to try to minimize snow buildup and have the best angle for sunlight over the day.

Though I do believe the Sun does actually comes up during the Winter at our latitude. I read somewhere "a standard 3kW system facing due south, producing around 300kWh during June and July, will produce around 75kWh in a winter month like December or January. So you are talking about a 5th of the energy production in the winter months". I believe this is for Devon England, somewhat further North than me.

So the calculus would be a system that for six months could provide a full charge overnight at 12v to completely charge the EV such as the Intimidator or Polaris Ranger and still be able to provide a trickle charge while stored.

 

[JamesHW]

I'm curious about the offer to install the solar generation array. Was this from someone who wanted to use your land to generate solar power so they could sell it or from someone who wanted to sell you solar pannels? There's an outfit sending out a color brochure asking properry owners with 3 phase power lines to let them install solar farms on their property.

I'll have to dig it up, but definitely wanting to generate power, not a homeowner setup like they tout at the hardware stores. It was a letter addressed to me.

 

[buickanddeere]

For those people who say fossil and nuclear power is subsidized. Care to calculate the wages paid by the fossil and nuclear industry . Then add the taxes and royalties paid by fossil and nuclear .

 

[TheMadOne]

My two cents for the EV thing.

Buy an old cub or 8n. It'd be cheaper and capable of more ground work, also a heck of a lot harder to steal that much iron. And fewer people would want to. In addition to that, the carbon cost of such an old machine is pretty well amortized, meaning that it's actually more eco friendly to buy than a new EV, especially one with lithium batteries. Obviously this reverses as the EV gets older, but current battery life would force replacement every decade or so. Thus starting the cycle over again. How long do you plan to farm? Just put sta-bil in the tank, pull the battery and bring gas with you. Also won't depreciate near as much as a new EV. there's also the price of implements to consider. I don't claim to be an expert, but I've not seen many used or cheap UTV/ATV implements out there, while implements for a regular tractor can be found all day long on craigslist.

 

[dickfoster]

For those people who say fossil and nuclear power is subsidized. Care to calculate the wages paid by the fossil and nuclear industry . Then add the taxes and royalties paid by fossil and nuclear .

Another pet peeve of mine. Business shouldn't pay tax because it's just passed along to us. It's just another way to hide all the taxes we the people end up paying. Let's get it all out in the open, then someone get a rope. LOL

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I don't think the OP was looking for a political discussion. I think this could be an interesting thread so I hate to see it on a path to being shut down.
:2cents:

 

[JamesHW]

Thanks Luke.

Sorry if I pissed in anyone's corn flakes.

 

[JamesHW]

As to implements, if I went with a UTV then we are talking about towable. I have a harrow already in the form of some old bed springs combined with some metal fencing. I've seen small towable implements for garden tractors that are not expensive, but small and light weight.