250' water line: got some questions

[EddieWalker]

Odd. What is the failure mode of black poly?

City of Tyler, population around a hundred thousand, used it for their water supply to several thousand houses before realizing it was a problem. They now run a crew 24/7 repairing it. It's under the paved streets everywhere, and it's a nightmare. One house that I owned had it and the line cracked just before the fitting into the meter. While they repaired it, I was told about all their problems with it.

The ground never stops moving. Black Poly can handle it for so long, then it cracks. PVC does better over short runs, depending on the soil. A couple hundred feet shouldn't ever be a problem. A thousand feet and the only thing you can use is gasketed pipe.

Just because you got away with it so far does not mean it's the best pipe to use. Congratulations if you have it and you never have an issue. For me, I'm never going to use it, or recommend it to anybody else.

 

[/pine]

Like most other things...there are different qualities...In my personal experience of over 45 years of using black poly water line...from 1.5" to 3/4"...and literally thousands of feet I've never seen the pipe fail...
My experience has mostly been setting up surface spring water systems...some over 1K' alone...some have been buried and some lay on the surface...I've seen couplings freeze and split but never the black poly...
About 1/3 of the repairs I make to different systems every year is due to squirrels chewing through exposed lines...most of the rest are in the spring replacing cracked PVC fittings that were used to make up connections at the ends of the poly pipe runs

 

[LD1]

Also worth mentioning that the black pe pipe typically has 50yr MFG warranties too.

Perhaps the city of tyler got a bad production run??? But Black PE pipe is used EVERYWHERE for domestic water runs. If it truly were a big problem, I think there would be more out there about it.

 

[gsganzer]

Interesting read.

I'm thinking of running about 300' of line to put a waterer in my back pasture and had figured I'd use black PE to avoid joints. I'm on black clay and I figured it would cause failure of PVC joints with all the movement. I'll have to look into this a little more.

I agree with Eddie about the PVC glue. There are 3 different types, normal, medium and high strength. I only use high strength when I do PVC stuff.

 

[DJ54]

I have 4 runs of ploy pipe here. But, I ran 3/4" 160 psi poly through 1-1/4" ploy as a conduit. It costs a little more at the time, but if a problem ever does occur, disconnect ends, pull the old pipe out, shove a new one through. No digging a new trench, landscaping, etc. to repair a line. The first was put in in 1966, and no problems yet.

 

[grsthegreat]

Here in n idaho only black poly is allowed. Odd how different areas require different pipes. Mine is 20 yo, no leaks. I used only 2" pipe and brass compression fittings.

I just did my annual spring leak test...l. No leaks on either main runs or landscape runs.

Mine is buried 5 feet in ground

 

[mapper]

Odd. What is the failure mode of black poly?

Much of the time it is when 90' pipe is used, this is according to the earth work contractor who worked on our house when we were building it. It tends to crack and pinhole. What they told me was if you can push the barbed fittings in without warming the pipe with a torch then it's not heavy enough. They used 180' pipe to hook up our house to the existing line, which was 90', installed by the previous owner. About a year later it broke out in the middle of our hay field. Long story short we replaced the 1" line with 2" shedule 40 and the 12 ga romex wire with 10 ga DB.

 

[Creamer]

I have never heard of black PE failure. A 2.5 Mile water line that my father had installed 50 years ago has never leaked. In the area around the farm where I grew up they knifed in a complete new rural water line 6' deep and it was all black poly. My brother, who is on the home place, had branches run off to various pastures while they were there to knife it in. that was 15 years ago an no issues thus far.

i had a black poly line from the city main to my house that was about 1/4 mile long and had problems - at each of the plastic barbed fittings after about 40 years. We put in a replacement black poly with brass connectors.

the beauty to black poly is that is flexible enough to take the ground shifting as long as it is deep enough to not get crushed and there is not a sharp rock next to it.

 

[lmgtexas]

My son and I ran about 2,600 feet of 1 and 1/2 inch, Schedule 40 PVC water pipe for our place. We buried it 18" to 24" deep to avoid possible damage. We also installed runs into our four main pastures for water faucets to facilitate easy watering of the cattle at key points. Don't forget to install cut-off valves at strategic spots in your water line runs (Example: Before each pasture run in case the cattle damage a faucet or to cut off water to faucets during freezing weather). Don't forget to inspect all lines and test them for functionality and leaks before covering them up in your trenches. I usually leave the trenches open for a couple of days after I'm certain the lines are not leaking anywhere - just to be sure! Then I carefully fill in the trenches (making sure rocks are not breaking the doggone lines!). Voila!!1

 

[newbury]

Good thread.

Our line from the main is leaking and part will need replacing. I'll be following this thread.

<snip>
Drive a vehicle over the area, I'd want 18".

Heavy equip...24" is better

What's "heavy equipment"? There's on place not to far from the main where (before I bought) some dip was driving some size truck and dropping gravel behind my shops. I think they were planning on expanding the shop.

It's where I've driven my M4700.

I have 4 runs of ploy pipe here. But, I ran 3/4" 160 psi poly through 1-1/4" ploy as a conduit. It costs a little more at the time, but if a problem ever does occur, disconnect ends, pull the old pipe out, shove a new one through. No digging a new trench, landscaping, etc. to repair a line. The first was put in in 1966, and no problems yet.

That's a GREAT IDEA, probably cost an arm and a leg upfront, but great security.