Oil & Fuel Battery Tender Success Story?

[Industrial Toys]

I never seem to read about anyone adding water to their batteries. No flooded battery will last when it runs dry. I try and check mine every year, and throw a mainenance charger on unused equipment two or three times a winter for a day or so. That's it for me. I do have battery disconnect switches on some equipment, and would like them on everything. Apparently, a slightly leaky alternator diode (array) can slowly drain your battery.

 

[John_Mc]

Can anybody recommend a good solar tender? Most of the cheap ones don't have a controller on em, which end up boiling the battery, even with a small wattage pannel.

I have a bigger charger 2 Battery Tenders, but they require an outlet. Need something to maintain stuff not near an outlet.

VDC Electronics makes the BatteryMinder line. They have a Solar BatteryMinder this is a smart charger, so it won't damage the battery by overcharging. It also desulfates the battery. Their solar models aren't cheap, but all of their line are VERY good chargers (I've got 4 of them, all different models, including an aviation specific one that has significantly extended the life of my very expensive 24V aircraft battery).

 

[jrm21]

You want to store your battery fully charged in the freezer.

What you write makes perfect sense. I am not disagreeing - just trying to understand.

Why is it that a battery left unused in a vehicle during the summer is fine, but a battery left unused in a vehicle during the winter can have its life shortened and/or die completely? I lost two ATV batteries (not new) a few years back by leaving them in my garage over the winter. After about 6 weeks of non-use they were dead and failed to hold a charge. Never had a problem like that in the summer with warm temps. After that I bought battery tenders and leave all my batteries connected to them over the winter.

Again, just trying to understand, as the "keep the battery at a cold temp" seems logical, but is contrary to what I have always been told.

 

[John_Mc]

All lead-acid batteries will self-discharge over time, whether there is a load on them or not. Some technologies (such as AGM) self-discharge at a slower rate. Colder temperatures slow down the rate of discharge, but do NOT completely stop it (even putting them in the freezer does not stop it).

There are several things that could have happened to your ATV batteries jrm21:
1) Batteries naturally put out less at cold temperatures than when warm (which is why in very cold climates, battery heaters are sometimes installed, along with engine block heaters). So the same battery, in exactly the same condition might start your ATV in the summer, but not in the winter.
2) It takes more to crank a cold engine than a warm one. Oil is thicker at cold temperatures, clearances are tighter, etc.
3) If your battery is not stored fully charged, it can freeze if the temperatures get cold enough, doing permanent, irreversible damage.
4) Things like ATVs tend to get used more in the summer than in the winter, so the vehicle tops off the battery from time to time.
5) It could have been a coincidence: the battery was getting older, it was stored partially discharged, allowing sulfation to build up on the plates. (If you catch this early enough, you can reverse it with a desulfating charger). Perhaps it finally had had enough, and it's just a coincidence that it happened in the winter - or they were getting weak, and some combination of items 1-4 above finally did them in.

 

[jrm21]

There are several things that could have happened to your ATV batteries jrm21:

Most likely #3... it wasn't a matter of cranking in cold weather. The battery lost its abiilty to hold a charge. It didn't work after winter was long gone. While not brand new, the battery wasn't old. It was stored over a cold winter, disconnected. Very similar to storing in a freezer or refrigerator. Very likely it wasn't fully charged when the cold weather came.


I now use AGM batteries in all my machines and keep them connected to a Battery Minder all winter and when not used for long periods. Have had very good luck with this system for a few years.

Been doing some reading on battery storage. Very interesting about the freezer idea.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I never seem to read about anyone adding water to their batteries. No flooded battery will last when it runs dry.

Very true! Depending on the design of the battery, on some you can shine a light through the side and see the level in the cells. Some you can get to the cell by removing the fake caps and add some distilled water. Depending on the design of the batteries venting I have immersed them in water and they will fill through the battery venting. What i do is de-rate my batteries. It my not start the truck but it will start the lawn tractor. Can't get away with it in all cases because of space, but we have some batteries going on 14 years. Not in same application mind you. Lead acid batteries like to be fat and happy, that is fully charged just sitting there. They are not happy when they are deep cycled and charged real fast, some will actually get foot ball shaped when the sides swell. Anyway, to my point, you can take a perfectly brand new battery and trash it in a couple of days. Lets say your alternator is not working, so you charge the battery run the tractor bring it in and charge it back up. Your deep cycling it it is not going to like it. Now, lets say once you forget to put it on charge and it sits in a discharged state, its really not going to like it. It will sulfate, decreasing it ability to both discharge and take a charge. So, in a couple of days your battery is junk. Now, you finally decide to fix your alternator, but your tractor still won't start when it is real cold. Well, you sulfated your battery!
Oh, for my distilled water, I collect the water from the de humidifier.

 

[crazyal]

I always bring my lawn tractor battery inside for winter. Leaving them outside is a great way to find yourself buying a new one in spring. Car batteries, not so much of a problem but if they are not going to be used then inside in a basement is much better than outdoors where it froze. A lead acid battery that's at 60% of full charge will freeze at about -15f. If your battery doesn't discharge quickly then you have nothing to worry about. But most people have no clue how fast their batteries discharge. Unless you measure the specific gravity of the acid you really don't know. If the engine you are starting only needs about 10% to 25% of the battery's capacity to start it you may assume it's just fine. I've had batteries that will start my equipment just fine in summer but only last about a month before their capacity is at the point where I can tell they don't have a full charge.

I do have a battery Minder and it does work well. It can't revive a battery that's too far gone but it can keep the weak ones that are discharging too quickly when sitting idle from getting worse. In the winter I take all my "summer" batteries into the garage and charge each one with the minder and then put them in the basement. Other batteries get a charge once a year (or more) to help top them off. The only battery that has never had a charge by the minder is the one in my Kubota. It's about 6 years old now and works great. This fall I'll probably put the minder on it simply because I jinxed myself.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/WP_DeepCycleBatteryStorage_0512.pdf Also, you do not need to measure specific gravity to tell if it is fully charged. After a surface charge is removed you should have 12.65 volts. Disconnect the ground leave it outside in the cold! It is not going to discharge enough with the ground disconnect to EVER freeze. The attached link supports what I am saying.

 

[Jkott]

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/WP_DeepCycleBatteryStorage_0512.pdf Also, you do not need to measure specific gravity to tell if it is fully charged. After a surface charge is removed you should have 12.65 volts. Disconnect the ground leave it outside in the cold! It is not going to discharge enough with the ground disconnect to EVER freeze. The attached link supports what I am saying.

The attached link suggests avoiding freezing at all costs....

It recommends "cool" storage, not a cold freezer.

 

[crazyal]

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/WP_DeepCycleBatteryStorage_0512.pdf Also, you do not need to measure specific gravity to tell if it is fully charged. After a surface charge is removed you should have 12.65 volts. Disconnect the ground leave it outside in the cold! It is not going to discharge enough with the ground disconnect to EVER freeze. The attached link supports what I am saying.

Voltage is not that great of a way to determine charge of a battery. There are too many variables to be accurate. Things like the temperature of the battery, the internal resistance, and the accuracy of the meter being used. A good battery will read virtually the same between 90% to 100% charge. Even at 80% the voltage might only be .05v less. While a battery at 80% isn't likely to freeze it is half way to 60%, a point where a lead acid battery can freeze here in the north. Even that PDF you linked says "cool", not freezing. It says to avoid storing near things like heaters.