Haying on a 30* slope: Can a Grillo 110 cut it?

[NGOG NRYTHRNG]

Problems:
First, approximately four acres on a 30* slope to hay. The penalty for error is very high. On one side a watery grave filled with moccasins, on the other rusty barbed wire and fire ants.
Second, about seven acres of watershed that can be wet/soft if there has been a rain.

Potential solution 1: Brielmaier. See youtube.com/watch?v=D_L4P1F2zU8. Not going to happen.

Potential solution 2: Grillo 110 with a sickle bar.

How can I make the Grillo work, and what variations can optimize it?


Starting with this:
1. 11 HP diesel engine. Can the diesel operate for long periods of time at that angle, or will it either starve on lubrication or feed oil into the cylinder and go berserk? Is gas safer at that angle?
2. Sickle bar. Earth Tools offers a 71 double-action bar. An 11 HP diesel could probably handle 96 with no problem. Does such a thing exist for a two-wheeled tractor? The Brielmaier has a 14 foot bar. Is that cool or what?
3. Wheel extensions. I am thinking the 16 would be best for a stable footing. Or is the adjustable version worth the extra expense?
4. Wheels/tires. I am thinking not just balloon tires, but double balloon tires. This would provide a light footprint and flotation in the softer ground and help with stabilization on the slope. Good idea or folly? Is it even possible?
5. I would use a 72 Molon rake to throw the cut hay up to the top of the dam. Conventional compact tractor equipment would be used to bale the dam hay, as well as the hay on the soft ground.

The Grillo would also end up working other roles with a rotary plow, tiller, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Suggestions/jokes/comments/rude noises appreciated.

 

[super55]

7 acres is quite a challenge you are willing to undertake with a two wheeled tractor but if your ambition and budget are big enough anything is possible. Are you selling this hay? If not why don't you just use the area for grazing?

You ever consider going with a tracked tractor such as an old oliver, cletrac or John Deere? They have a really low center of gravity and rear PTO. You could get a drawbar sickle mower and an old dump rake and drive all over that incline.

 

[SPYDERLK]

It would have to be good hay to make the effort worthwhile. Normally steep slopes drain water too fast and dont grow good hay. ... Also, due erosion potential its best not to cut the grass real short like typically done with hay. Further:

How far laterally must the hay be moved to get to the top of the dam?
Does/can the Molon move big windrows steep upslope well or only flat hay and small windrows?
Is your left leg shorter?
Do you have a good drying climate so no appreciable working of the hay is necessary?
Over time, rutting by downslope wheels could become an issue - but I think you have that covered with widening plans and "balloon" tires​

 

[jeepcoma]

I have the G110 with the 11 HP diesel, and I also happen to have the big 71" double action cutter bar. (I also have the biggest flail mower and the stump grinder as well). While I'll leave the hay issues to the experts, I can at least give my impression after using the equipment you are looking at. I have the foam-filled tires as well for some extra weight. I have some steep sections that I mow, particularly a bank along the road, which I'll try to measure at some point to give me a more clear idea of what 4 acres at 30* would be like.

1.

11 HP diesel engine. Can the diesel operate for long periods of time at that angle, or will it either starve on lubrication or feed oil into the cylinder and go berserk? Is gas safer at that angle?

The service manual states:
continuous service for up to 30 min.: 25*
Max. inclination discontinuous service for about 1 min.: 35*

There may or may not be a safety margin is baked into these figures, so you're kind of border line here. I suppose if you intend to use it mainly for this task, you could get a smaller tire to put upslope (or bigger on the downslope side, or a combination of both) to help level it out. Of course getting back to the starting point may be problematic, but you could walk it in reverse or flip the controls around and then use 4th gear to scoot along. I'll also point out that the cutter bar, according to the manual, is not to be used as transportation by standing on it

2.

Sickle bar. Earth Tools offers a 71 double-action bar. An 11 HP diesel could probably handle 96 with no problem. Does such a thing exist for a two-wheeled tractor? The Brielmaier has a 14 foot bar. Is that cool or what?

No idea what's out there for other alternatives, but the 11 HP diesel is overkill for the 71" bar. The biggest problem with the cutter bars is you have to keep the engine speed slow which really limits your ground speed, even in 3rd gear. Throttle needs to be around idle-1/4, so if you need to move faster you'll have to factor tire size into the speed equation.

On the plus side, this thing just sips the diesel. If it used any less fuel you'd be siphoning it out after each use! I haven't kept close track of consumption but I'd bet you could finish all 4 acres without needing to stop for fuel.

Another concern with a large bar which might not matter in your circumstances is maneuverability. The ends swing out WIIIIDE when turning, which would be considerably worse the longer the bar gets. Not an issue with a nice clean hay field, but if you're dodging metal fence T-posts and other things you really don't want to hit (said barbed wire for instance), then it's something to think about. A 14 ft bar would be pretty awesome though.

The last thing I thought of is that I've noticed the bar likes to pull to the side that has the densest material. I've been using mine to clear overgrown fields (after going through with the flail mower a few times) and if you have a lot of variety of grasses, like thick clumps mixed in with taller fine grasses, it really beats you up after a while. And with the 71" bar, it can really want to pull you off course. With nice hay, probably not a concern, but given the dire consequences you mentioned I thought I'd point it out (I never had even thought of this until I experienced it first hand). This leads to two issues which I'll talk about later (diff lock and brakes).

3.

Wheel extensions. I am thinking the 16 would be best for a stable footing. Or is the adjustable version worth the extra expense?
4. Wheels/tires. I am thinking not just balloon tires, but double balloon tires. This would provide a light footprint and flotation in the softer ground and help with stabilization on the slope. Good idea or folly? Is it even possible?

Don't know, but good advice seems to be "buy the biggest wheels/tires you can afford". I went foam filled, but I wish I went bigger. Of course, I'm clearing rough land so I get stuck a lot and could use the extra clearance, but the extra ground speed would be nice too since I'm rarely ever at full throttle (only with the flair mower when diving into a really thick patch).

I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of double ballons, maybe on Earth tools? I don't think you need the flotation so much as the extra treads. I would go with dual Ag tires over balloons because I think they provide more traction, but to be honest, but I don't know a lot about optimal tire choice.

5. I would use a 72 Molon rake to throw the cut hay up to the top of the dam. Conventional compact tractor equipment would be used to bale the dam hay, as well as the hay on the soft ground.

Can't help you there, sorry. Sounds expensive though if you don't already own the Molon rake. I've looked at buying hay equipment for some areas around me but it's just not worth the entry cost for what I'm using (or paying for it).


Some other random experience from my time behind the seat, err, wheel, uh, handlebars:

The hardest part of mowing sideways on a slope with this machine is that it always wants to skew. This manifests in a few ways:

1. Always using the brakes results in hand fatigue. In my usage I only have couple long stretches where I'm on a constant slope, but I'm on one of the brakes at least 95% of the time. I'll state for the record I've broken one of the brake levers, I guess just from use. I happened to be at a flat section, so it wasn't a problem, but again given your catastrophic consequences it means you'd probably keep a spare on hand. Anyway, I at least get to alternate which brake I'm using, but since it's all on the right hand, it does wear you out over time. I've pondered stripping down a motorcycle braking system to convert to hydraulic, but it's gone no further than pondering. Maybe this winter I will have some time. I've also thought of taking my one spare brake lever to a shop to see if I can find a nice stainless replacement and not have to worry about braking a plastic handle.

2. Even with the brakes, the machine doesn't track exactly straight, but instead you have to point it up the hill a few degrees. In theory using the diff lock could alleviate this (and using the brakes!) but engagement isn't 100% on the spot. I've found this out the hard way getting stuck, and not having the lock work. There's probably a trick to get it to engage straight away, but I don't know it. Because my sloped sections are relatively short, I've never bothered to try it with the lock on. But I will next time I mow to see if it gets rid of the skewing problem. Depending on how slippery, bumpy, soft, etc the land is, eventually it's going to want to point downhill and you'll have to point it back the right way.

3. Overall machine quality is high but small parts tend to break. I think the diesel vibrations (not to mention the cutter bars) are hard on most parts. I've lost a variety of bolts, nuts, seen things loosen up, broken, etc. The only two potentially critical failures (which weren't for me, but I wasn't on a 30* slope with a time limit to get the job done) have been the brake level, and the handlebar height adjustment pin. Once that breaks or walks itself off, you lose up/down leverage on the machine and gravity has its way. I've looked at a superior pin that's both longer and with c-clips (instead of press-on clips) but haven't ordered anything yet.

Main point is, have spares on hand in advance for anything that you really can't do the job without. Stuff will break, and usually at the least convenient time.

All things said, these were made for farming the hills of Europe so if there's any solution to do what you need, I'm sure a 2-wheel can do it. Good luck!

 

[NGOG NRYTHRNG]

Thanks for the replies!

super55:
I will be selling the hay, and need to keep my agricultural tax valuation.
Grazing might work but I know nothing about animals and don't want cattle falling in the pond and pooping in it.
The tracked older vehicles do not seem like a good idea for the dam, where I want as little erosion/wear as possible. A four wheel tractor like the Antonio Carraro TTR 4400 (see: tractortoolsdirect.com/showroom/antonio-carraro-ttr-4400-tractor/) might work great, but it has little support in the USA, whereas the two-wheeled Grillo and BCS have fantastic support thru Earth Tools. The Carraro is also very expensive (as are the 2-wheeled versions), although it would have the advantage of allowing me to tell babes at the local watering hole that I own a Ferrari.

SPYDERLK:
It is lush coastal and Earth Tools has casters so the sickle bar can cut at 5 inches high.
It is Texas, so unless there are thunderstorms we are in drought.
I will have pipes/pump/rainbirds to keep the dam green, so it should grow just fine.
Pushing the hay up to the top of the dam (at least 60 feet) from both sides might not be realistic, but I have zero experience trying. Not sure what the alternative is. I do not want to try and bale at that extreme angle. The Euro's rake the hay down to a level spot, at least from most of the videos on Youtube but that is not an option here.
Both legs are the same length.

Jeepcoma:
Wow, serious info.
The service manual info is a bit scarey. Four acres will take more than thirty minutes. I suppose I can go around the flat areas on alternate passes.
I do not think the smaller tires on one side is practical. They would probably find my rotting corpse in the middle of the field, with a circular path worn deep in the turf, as I tried and failed to make my way back to the barn.
Earth Tool's site notes that larger wheels/tires make the angle of attack change, which can be bad for a sicklebar, and require PTO extensions and implement weights.
Great info on the mowing on slopes, brakes, etc. Using a standard mower I need to keep a ~15 degree angle just to stay level, so it is not surprising the Grillo/sicklebar is the same.
Re: spare parts. The land is out in the boonies, so I need to keep any likely culprit in the barn.
Diesel vibrations noted, and blue Loctite will be used.

 

[wstr75]

I have a 2002 Antonio Carraro TTR 4400 and am interested in selling it with 6' Howse bush hog mower. It is a sweet tractor and was purchased eight years ago for a hilly farm that was never purchased so it works about 8 hours a year bush hogging 4 acres behind our office. Send me a private message if interested. Is located in North Carolina.

 

[TimberXX]

Problems:
First, approximately four acres on a 30* slope to hay. The penalty for error is very high. On one side a watery grave filled with moccasins, on the other rusty barbed wire and fire ants.
Second, about seven acres of watershed that can be wet/soft if there has been a rain.

Potential solution 1: Brielmaier. See youtube.com/watch?v=D_L4P1F2zU8. Not going to happen.

Potential solution 2: Grillo 110 with a sickle bar.

How can I make the Grillo work, and what variations can optimize it?


Starting with this:
1. 11 HP diesel engine. Can the diesel operate for long periods of time at that angle, or will it either starve on lubrication or feed oil into the cylinder and go berserk? Is gas safer at that angle?
2. Sickle bar. Earth Tools offers a 71 double-action bar. An 11 HP diesel could probably handle 96 with no problem. Does such a thing exist for a two-wheeled tractor? The Brielmaier has a 14 foot bar. Is that cool or what?
3. Wheel extensions. I am thinking the 16 would be best for a stable footing. Or is the adjustable version worth the extra expense?
4. Wheels/tires. I am thinking not just balloon tires, but double balloon tires. This would provide a light footprint and flotation in the softer ground and help with stabilization on the slope. Good idea or folly? Is it even possible?
5. I would use a 72 Molon rake to throw the cut hay up to the top of the dam. Conventional compact tractor equipment would be used to bale the dam hay, as well as the hay on the soft ground.

The Grillo would also end up working other roles with a rotary plow, tiller, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Suggestions/jokes/comments/rude noises appreciated.

I have the adjustable wheel extensions and love them. I keep the wide when on slopes or when I need slow turns. I just screw them in when I need to get through gates or connect the snowblower.

 

[leonz]

Your getting in to a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for 4 acres.

It may be much easier to have someone come in and just terrace your 4 acres in to 2 plots to do several things for you.

1. increase the drainage
2. increase the amount of flat land area that can be hayed
3. have a travel path installed on one side for ingress and egress of machinery
4. avoid issues with huge slopes as 15 degrees is the safe maximum unless you
have a side hill tractor or a crawler tractor to use
5. terracing quickly eliminates all the problems you are dealing with or wish to
overcome with a 2 wheel mule
6. standard sized equipment can be used eliminating the need for a CUT, hay rake,
mini baler.

In saying that, the 40 pound mini round bales can be of greater value for the horse feed market as
there is less waste and if wrapped will be well preserved as forage for end user.

The other thing is the terraces will be FLAT and the hay will be quickly dryed and then baled.

The Wolagri mini balers have hay gathering wheels and will pull in hay that has been cut with a
sickle bar or with a towed or seld propelled hay windrower/ crimper that presses the moisture
out of the hay stalks to make them dry quicker and by terracing the acreage into 2 two acre plots
lets you do the job of cutting and windrowing in one day when its hot and possibly baling the next day.

The added benefit would be at least one more crop of hay per year as the hay would not have to grow
in a damp plot as the terracing would make the land much drier.


If you invest in a 2 wheel mule, sickle bar and rake and a baler your looking north of 20K and without a hay contract the point is mute.


A good mini baler, CUT sickle bar or disc mower with a windrower and a BX 1860 with duals and liquid ballast is going to see you north of 35K in costs without terracing.

It takes a lot of money to make hay on very small acreages and the same rules apply for larger acreages.


The other thing is that you need to have a flat road at the top of the acreage to safely turn around anyway so by terracing the 4 acres you eliminate the possiblity of rolling over a tractor or rake and you can safely and quickly make hay with dry land. You may lose an acre but the land is difficult to farm so you have to decide how well you can do this or not or just plant vegetables for a truck farm making raised beds with a tiller a V plow behind the tiller which will let you plow up narrow rows that will quickly fill in with the row crop plant growth and choke out any weeds as the crop canopy will shield out any sunlight for the few weeds that come up if any. I had almost no weeds on my test plots when I grew sunflowers and sweet corn on raised beds 24 inches on center.

Using a two wheel mule with a rotary plow makes good growing beds and you can build smaller terraces to grow vegetables for a farm stand. The raised beds let the seeds or plants grow quickly to choke out weeds and build a good root system with the loose soil and the raised beds hold water much more effectively and prevent root rot from any damaging heavy rains.

Each year you use the rotary plow on the plot would allow you to build a terrace as long as you throw the dirt up hill and you can then till it again and make raised bed rows. I did this on a sunflower test plot may years ago and the yields for sunflowers and other vegetables were huge and I had almost no weeds on the plot I grew the vegetables and sunflowers on using the raised bed method of farming which is actually referred to as ridge tillage in the farming business.

 

[rickyd79]

Problems:
First, approximately four acres on a 30* slope to hay. The penalty for error is very high. On one side a watery grave filled with moccasins, on the other rusty barbed wire and fire ants.
Second, about seven acres of watershed that can be wet/soft if there has been a rain.

Potential solution 1: Brielmaier. See youtube.com/watch?v=D_L4P1F2zU8. Not going to happen.

Potential solution 2: Grillo 110 with a sickle bar.

How can I make the Grillo work, and what variations can optimize it?


Starting with this:
1. 11 HP diesel engine. Can the diesel operate for long periods of time at that angle, or will it either starve on lubrication or feed oil into the cylinder and go berserk? Is gas safer at that angle?
2. Sickle bar. Earth Tools offers a 71 double-action bar. An 11 HP diesel could probably handle 96 with no problem. Does such a thing exist for a two-wheeled tractor? The Brielmaier has a 14 foot bar. Is that cool or what?
3. Wheel extensions. I am thinking the 16 would be best for a stable footing. Or is the adjustable version worth the extra expense?
4. Wheels/tires. I am thinking not just balloon tires, but double balloon tires. This would provide a light footprint and flotation in the softer ground and help with stabilization on the slope. Good idea or folly? Is it even possible?
5. I would use a 72 Molon rake to throw the cut hay up to the top of the dam. Conventional compact tractor equipment would be used to bale the dam hay, as well as the hay on the soft ground.

The Grillo would also end up working other roles with a rotary plow, tiller, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Suggestions/jokes/comments/rude noises appreciated.

Hi. Since I sell both Grillo and BCS and use both Grillo and BCS personally, I do have a few thoughts for you.
1. Running the 71" dual action sickle bar will void the Grillo transmission warranty on G110 in the event the transmission housing cracks. This has happened to some folks. Others have had success. So something to keep in mind.
2. I would only want something smaller than 71" on a slope like that. I personally use a 71" and 59" dual action sickle, but on that kind of slope would not consider the 71". Too wide. Power wise: You don't need anywhere close to 11HP to run a 71" sickle bar. But like the other guy pointed out, it is recommended to run at lower throttle, with 1/2 throttle being maximum. I find that about 1/3 throttle is plenty fast for me.
3. Axle extensions: The wider the axle stance the more cumbersome it is to turn the tractor. To be cost effective 16" total fixed axle extensions save money and you can also run barbell weight hangers without interference from the adjustable axle extensions. But if you want to adjust the width depending upon task, the adjustable extensions are nice...you just can't run the barbell weight hangers with the adjustable extensions unless you are at maximum width ONLY.
4. I run a 5' Molon hay rake and love it. It works great. I also love my Caeb baler. However I don't run it on a 30 degree slope. Maybe 20+ degrees, I would have to measure to be sure. On this slope I run either 5" x 12" tires with rims adjusted all the way out, with no additional axle extensions. But my Caeb baler does have dual wheels on it, so it has a pretty wide stance. There are quite a few videos of folks baling hay with these in the mountains of Italy, so you may want to check that out.
5. I like both BCS and Grillo brand 2 wheel tractors. My (main) personal tractors are BCS 853 diesel and Grillo G131 diesel. I rake hay with Grillo G110 and it works great. I WOULD NOT buy a Grillo AT ALL if I was going to run a Caeb hay baler on it. Reason being the PTO shaft direction changes when one shifts from forward to reverse. This can cause problems with the baler if one forgets to disengage the PTO while still in reverse gear when starting a bale wrap cycle. Just something annoying that I think most end users would regret having to deal with. No matter how hard someone tries to remember, I think at some point they will forget and will have headaches as a result.
6. Tires: I like foam filled tires but only on soft ground. They are much "harder" than air filled tires on hard/rocky ground. For this reason my preference is to stick with air filled and use barbell weight hangers when I need additional weight for traction.

Feel free to message me or call with any questions or to get additional feedback. I do sell all of this equipment as well, but my point of responding was to give feedback based upon my personal experience and not to sell you one way or the other. I like my customers to decide for themselves.

 

[David Cockey]

I mow steep hill sides with a BCS 749 with Honda gas engine, 12 x 6.5 tires, and dual (5" per side) wheel extensions. I usually use a 59" dual-action sickle bar mower.

The Honda gas engine has several advantages.

• Lower initial purchase price. Given how little fuel it uses at partial throttle while mowing I don't think would ever be better financially with a Diesel.
• Less weight on the back of the tractor trying to lift the mower.
• Lower engine replacement cost if necessary - $850 with electric start.

I like the wider track with the wheel extensions for both stability on hill sides and for less tilting going over bumps. Since the tractor has a differential maneuvering has not been an issue.