Oil & Fuel Diesel fuel additives are so inexpensive to use.

[Turbys_1700]

Point well taken Island...
I don't think "Red Antifreeze" was available back in the late 70's...
The gentleman that I purchased my 4610 from last year had just replaced the water pump...
Added regular "Green Antifreeze"...
I asked if he had added any SCA's and he said no...
So I added them...
Most farmers back in the day only used regular antifreeze thus the need for SCA's...
The advanced formulas that we have today were not available back then...
Ford did correct that issue with the newer block design...

 

[rswyan]

... In the 1960s STP was the gas additive that was similarly touted to prolong engine life and power and mileage. It took decades before STP was proven to be baloney.

Are you sure it was a STP gas additive ... or was, in fact, STP Oil Treatment that you are referring to ?

Personally, I think you are either mistaken ... or playing a little loose with the actual facts of the matter.

Truth is, back in the day, the original product (STP Oil Treatment) did exactly what it was intended to do: help engine oil resist thinning at high temperatures and pressures ...

Of course, that was well before the highly-engineered motor oils that we have today even existed.

Like most such additives, it was never intended to be a "Miracle-In-A-Can" ... but was a legitimate product with a valid purpose.

What ultimately happened was that the company changed hands a number of times, and eventually there were some dubious claims made - that had no supporting scientific evidence or studies to back them up - as to what the original product would do - which were well beyond what it's original purpose was.

That ended up as a matter before the Federal Trade Commission ... and the product's then owner (Beatrice Foods) eventually agreed to settle for $888,000.00.

U.S. Settlement Reached on STP Oil Ads - NYTimes.com

As far as I know, there was never any controversy surrounding their fuel additives ... and in fact, as late as 2006, Marathon Oil was using STP fuel additives in their gasoline, likely in answer to Chevron's "Techron" additive ...

 

[daugen]

Too bad we don't have an FDA like organization that screens additive company claims and requires hard data of both efficacy and safety before marketing.

The Bureau of Snake Oil Testing?

Might we all agree on:
it makes sense to add a water dispersing additive in high condensation low usage situations? (as well as external filters for sure)
it makes sense to add an antigel in the far North if the fuel bought is not already treated?
it makes sense to add a lubricity additive if Bosch's minimum standard is higher than what is regularly available here?
it may not make sense any other time...

I think it's fair to gauge this based on current Tier II through IV engines, not something made thirty years ago. Lot of us with modern Kubotas...
now I wonder if my fuel pump is a Bosch or a Denso...I'm sure someone knows. Though I think I remember reading that Kubota does not recommend additives,
nor does it condemn them. I believe the latest Kubota engines are common rail though mine isn't. Now I'm glad I bought a Tier II. My Massey is also a Tier II.

And what about what goes up the exhaust and into one of those catalytic converters or reburners or whatever high temp exhaust device is being used?
Combine BlueDef with your favorite additive chemical and you get? Probably nothing, water vapor, but stuff doesn't disappear...just smaller ppm floating around unless truly incinerated. Your tractor is what it eats... and so is our air. One sure hopes one has carefully tested the exhaust smoke toxicity of fuel additives. Low concentrations but so is cyanide.

I'm sure it's just fine. I believe all those manufacturers are careful.

Only way I know to get water out is to polish/filter it (everyone has an Alfa Laval centrifuge in their barn, right?), burn it out if in low enough quantities, or pump and clean the tank. Maybe an additive might help in the second situation.

 

[daugen]

btw Axlehub thanks for bringing this whole thing up. Now I might stock up a bit while prices are lower.
Of course that then begs the question of what is the shelf life of this stuff.

 

[IslandTractor]

Are you sure it was a STP gas additive ... or was, in fact, STP Oil Treatment that you are referring to ?

Personally, I think you are either mistaken ... or playing a little loose with the actual facts of the matter.

Truth is, back in the day, the original product (STP Oil Treatment) did exactly what it was intended to do: help engine oil resist thinning at high temperatures and pressures ...

Of course, that was well before the highly-engineered motor oils that we have today even existed.

Like most such additives, it was never intended to be a "Miracle-In-A-Can" ... but was a legitimate product with a valid purpose.

What ultimately happened was that the company changed hands a number of times, and eventually there were some dubious claims made - that had no supporting scientific evidence or studies to back them up - as to what the original product would do - which were well beyond what it's original purpose was.

That ended up as a matter before the Federal Trade Commission ... and the product's then owner (Beatrice Foods) eventually agreed to settle for $888,000.00.

U.S. Settlement Reached on STP Oil Ads - NYTimes.com

As far as I know, there was never any controversy surrounding their fuel additives ... and in fact, as late as 2006, Marathon Oil was using STP fuel additives in their gasoline, likely in answer to Chevron's "Techron" additive ...

You are correct, I was thinking about the oil additive and the unproven marketing claims.

It comes back to my earlier point about the need for an FDA like organization (or UL or Consumer Reports) that would do objective validated testing of marketing claims before products hit the shelves. We do have a buyer beware culture in this country but there should be someplace reliable to look for objective data to compare to the sham wow and Barnum and Bailey marketing claims that fly around. These fuel additives are probably a billion dollar business. I'd sure like to think that consumers are getting what they think they are paying for. I see no reason why a company that sells $100 million worth of product cannot be subjected to requirements to validate their claims. We got the FDA during Teddy Roosevelt's administration (I think it was his administration) because of untested snake oil sales that actually did harm as well as ripping off the public. The FDA does a pretty good job of keeping worthless medication and outrageous marketing claims under control. I don't need a nanny state but do need trustworthy outcomes data to back up marketing claims. I simply don't trust the companies themselves to do that and I don't think that lab tests (like for lubricity) are meaningful until somebody shows there is a real world correlation.

 

[IslandTractor]

btw Axlehub thanks for bringing this whole thing up. Now I might stock up a bit while prices are lower.
Of course that then begs the question of what is the shelf life of this stuff.

Voodoo additives have an unlimited shelf life!

 

[AxleHub]

"it makes sense to add a water dispersing additive "

"it makes sense to add an antigel in the far North if the fuel bought is not already treated"

"it makes sense to add a lubricity additive"

"Only way I know to get water out is to polish/filter it, burn it out if in low enough quantities, or pump and clean the tank. Maybe an additive might help in the second situation."

Daugen, I whittled down to "the pearls of reason" on some of the things we agree on.

Like the water supply systems in many parts of our country . . there are now more small little pieces and parts of piping or tank debris flowing with the water. Same is true with fuel supplies. So a year ago I started using a Mr. Funnel which I used to laugh at until I saw it work. I now use them for my scut, my lawn tractor, my small engines, generator, etc.. if properly used they separate out water and debris.

And I've started reading labeling on additives more too. As an example, Power Services is a well recognized name for several products. I noted that their standard product labeling mentions it is to be used when colder conditions exist (32 ° F or lower) . . but to useva different product they offer in warmer climates and conditions).

My point . . like you were making . . is doing things that are reasonable. I know my trucker friend who had to dump his tanks and have someone clean them asked the service technician how bad was it and for recommendations and he now uses a couple inexpensive additives as recommended.

The point is . . most problems are cumulative . . not sudden. And additives used properly . . are designed for cumulative problem solving . . . just like filters (Mr. Funnel) are. I see my tractor fuel filter as backup protection . . not my "primary protection" . . because its so easy and fast to filter my fuel and much more visual to judge who my suppliers are the better choices.

 

[daugen]

I remember using Slick 50 (?) when it came out. Added teflon or something slippery.
Nothing broke, nor did it improve....

Is there any downside to adding antigel chemicals when you don't need them? It gets below freezing here, but not for long nor very often. Did hit 9 degrees last winter, but seriously unlikely I'll be out in my tractor then, unless it's a storm and trees are down. Then it had darn well better start.

 

[AxleHub]

I remember using Slick 50 (?) when it came out. Added teflon or something slippery.
Nothing broke, nor did it improve....

Is there any downside to adding antigel chemicals when you don't need them? It gets below freezing here, but not for long nor very often. Did hit 9 degrees last winter, but seriously unlikely I'll be out in my tractor then, unless it's a storm and trees are down. Then it had darn well better start.

1. Slick 50. Remember it . . I still use it occasionally. Its especially beneficial for those who don't check their oil levels often and run low. Saved my wife a new engine.

And for 10 bucks once every 12 ton18 months you get a free warranty. I knowcsomeoneveho collected on it.

2. Power Service has several products. One of them is good for your needs and benefit.

 

[IslandTractor]

1. Slick 50. Remember it . . I still use it occasionally. Its especially beneficial for those who don't check their oil levels often and run low. Saved my wife a new engine. And for 10 bucks once every 12 ton18 months you get a free warranty. I knowcsomeoneveho collected on it. 2. Power Service has several products. One of them is good for your needs and benefit.

You might add some voodoo juice to your daily breakfast too. Who knows it might help.