Amsoil vs. Kubota Super UDT2

[Fallon]

Quaker State is re-branded Shell, not bad oil.
These days most oils are good enough.

Therin lies the rub. As long as the oil meets the required standards it will do the job. A oil that far exceeded standards might be a bit better, but probably not to noticeable.

Personally I stick with SUDT2 as I have a HST. At least in Kubota's it's proven to quiet things down & meets OEM standards. I tend towards synthetics for engine oil for the better cold flow performance as I'm in Colorado, but I shop with a budget & go for the economical (not necessarily cheap) oil that meets the OEM standards.

 

[stoyan79]

Yes, yes and yes.

Buy oil that meets manufacturers recommendations. Premium oil might do a better job, but considering most modern oils are excellent, difference might be marginal.

I pay extra for Amsoil because cost is about $20 more per oil change. The cheapest service you will ever do to your tractor.

Therin lies the rub. As long as the oil meets the required standards it will do the job. A oil that far exceeded standards might be a bit better, but probably not to noticeable.

Personally I stick with SUDT2 as I have a HST. At least in Kubota's it's proven to quiet things down & meets OEM standards. I tend towards synthetics for engine oil for the better cold flow performance as I'm in Colorado, but I shop with a budget & go for the economical (not necessarily cheap) oil that meets the OEM standards.

 

[dgeesaman]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning toward Amsoil since it's the only full synthetic available and the viscosity index seems to back it up.

Since there are no specs at all on the Kubota and NH, I'm half inclined to buy a quart of each and take it into the lab at work and measure viscosity at 40C and 100C. That would allow a viscosity index calculation and just how "synthetic" these fluids really are.

 

[Fallon]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning toward Amsoil since it's the only full synthetic available and the viscosity index seems to back it up.

Since there are no specs at all on the Kubota and NH, I'm half inclined to buy a quart of each and take it into the lab at work and measure viscosity at 40C and 100C. That would allow a viscosity index calculation and just how "synthetic" these fluids really are.

There are a ton of specs when you start getting into it. Lots have to do with various additives & stuff more than just viscosity.

Synthetic means based off man made compounds, as opposed to natural or dead dinosaurs. Synthetic tends to have more stable & consistent compounds, but not always. And to meet the legal definition of synthetic in the US, there can be a suprising amount of non-synthetic oil in there,

 

[dgeesaman]

There are a ton of specs when you start getting into it. Lots have to do with various additives & stuff more than just viscosity.

I'm well aware of that possibility but can you provide those specs for Kubota and NH fluids? (I didn't think so).

Synthetic means based off man made compounds, as opposed to natural or dead dinosaurs. Synthetic tends to have more stable & consistent compounds, but not always. And to meet the legal definition of synthetic in the US, there can be a suprising amount of non-synthetic oil in there,

Synthetic is really not a useful word, except when used to exclude conventional fluids. Some people get their knickers in a bunch about Group III or Group IV or whatever base stocks, others focus on the elimination of paraffins, and others just focus on the performance. Since I stated in the first post that I'm most interested in cold performance, the key factors are viscosity and viscosity index. Fortunately viscosity is also easier to measure for fluids that have private performance specs.

 

[WayneJessie]

I don't know what was in my New Holland when I bought it. It was new fluid, but cheap stuff, I'm sure. I bought SUDT last week to replace it. The three point moves much faster in cold weather and my hydraulic pump is quieter. Also, the HST is happier and warms up faster.

As I understand it, SUDT is synthetic. I would have bought the Amsoil, because it lists the NH spec, but i found similar pricing to you. In my case it would have cost an extra $100 to use Amsoil. Everything I've read about the SUDT made me feel comfortable using it, and my NH/Kubota parts guy agreed that it was fine

Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you end up with.

SUDT is made for Kubota by Ashland oil which owns the Valvoline trademark. It's a good value for what it is priced. Amsoil is ONLY worth the cost if your application and useage allows you to extend the intervals significantly beyond what the manufacturer advises. Only oil analysis can accurately tell you what you can safely extend them to. I run a comparable HST fluid to Amsoil and have been able to triple the recommended service intervals based upon oil analysis. If I were going to stay with the advised interval I would not spend the additional cash for the fluid.
Unfortunately, due to fuel dilution associated with many newer DI diesel engines; it's difficult to extend engine oil intervals regardless of the oil used.

 

[davesl708]

I'm well aware of that possibility but can you provide those specs for Kubota and NH fluids? (I didn't think so).

Kubota provides the specs for it's SUDT2. I suspect NH does as well.

 

[roadhunter]

Interesting discussion. I currently have Amsoil hydraulic oil in my tractor and it no longer whines during sub 0 starts and the hydraulics are responsive even in cold weather.

I am not a loyal Amsoil user and have not purchased any of thier motor oil in years but I have used their products over the years with nothing but good results. The gear oil is amazing as it looks new after 100k and I've also had good luck with transmissions using thier ATF. Currently at 220k on a factory tranny on my dodge.

Every now an then you will find someone with an Amsoil "Horror Story" but from what I have seen none are really able to backup thier claims with any proof and they almost always seem to have been a former dealer. My guess is much of the issues has to do with the financial side of Amsoil and them not making much money as a "dealer" as I have never found any proof of widespread issues and every oil comparison I have read had amsoil among the best. Anyhow it seems more like they have an axe to grind more than actual proof of oil failing to perform. I've never had a bad experience with a synthetic oil. I use Delvac now primarily or Rotella if it's on sale.

 

[dgeesaman]

I run a comparable HST fluid to Amsoil

Can you be more specific?

David

 

[WayneJessie]

Can you be more specific?

David

Schaeffer Simplex Supreme. #315 . It's a blend of PAO and group II+ base oils. I have nothing against Amsoil or the SUDT oils. Both are good fluids. I just have had great results from the 315 fluid at a lower initial cost over Amsoil. 900HR intervals in my 3 Kubotas using it. I also have a good relationship with my local Schaeffer dealer. If I ever had to stay close to the Kubota suggested interval I would just buy the UDT/SUDT and be done with it.
The word "synthetic" is probably the most useless word in relation to oils anymore. Any hydrocracked mineral oil can be legally labelled as a synthetic oil. That's basically what you're buying when you go to your local Wally World and choose your favorite brand of synthetic oil. Even Amsoil is blending hydrocracked mineral oils into their PAO base stocks. There is no such thing as a 100% pure PAO engine oil or transmission oil today. All are blends consisting of hydrocracked mineral oil or ester-based oils. I've seen one fishing fleet run amazingly long intervals on a group II mineral oil simply because the oil had the very best additive package money could buy and because the power units run non-stop.
SUDT is a good value. Anything Ashland Oil puts out is generally a good value for factory recommended intervals. I wouldn't argue over fluid choices in a Kubota. Their equipment runs on fluids in 3rd world countries that we wouldn't start a fire with here in the USA.

 

[ovrszd]

I wouldn't argue over fluid choices in a Kubota. Their equipment runs on fluids in 3rd world countries that we wouldn't start a fire with here in the USA.

Good point!!!!!

 

[Laderbuilt]

Schaeffer Simplex Supreme. #315 . It's a blend of PAO and group II+ base oils. I have nothing against Amsoil or the SUDT oils. Both are good fluids. I just have had great results from the 315 fluid at a lower initial cost over Amsoil. 900HR intervals in my 3 Kubotas using it. I also have a good relationship with my local Schaeffer dealer. If I ever had to stay close to the Kubota suggested interval I would just buy the UDT/SUDT and be done with it.
The word "synthetic" is probably the most useless word in relation to oils anymore. Any hydrocracked mineral oil can be legally labelled as a synthetic oil. That's basically what you're buying when you go to your local Wally World and choose your favorite brand of synthetic oil. Even Amsoil is blending hydrocracked mineral oils into their PAO base stocks. There is no such thing as a 100% pure PAO engine oil or transmission oil today. All are blends consisting of hydrocracked mineral oil or ester-based oils. I've seen one fishing fleet run amazingly long intervals on a group II mineral oil simply because the oil had the very best additive package money could buy and because the power units run non-stop.
SUDT is a good value. Anything Ashland Oil puts out is generally a good value for factory recommended intervals. I wouldn't argue over fluid choices in a Kubota. Their equipment runs on fluids in 3rd world countries that we wouldn't start a fire with here in the USA.

I have a Mahindra 3016 shuttle and chose to go with Schaeffers 315 during my 100hr service. I have had no issues since the switch and it performs just as good if not better then the factory fill. I noticed it has a more responsive hydraulic system when cold vs the old fluid. I also noticed a much smoother shift when changing gears or direction. That could be from things breaking in. To sum up. I've been pleased with cost v performance

 

[mkreitler]

KUBOTA SUPER UDT2 is shall we say BLENDED for KUBOTA BY ASHLAND OIL(VALVOLINE) when it was time to change my TRANS.and HYD. FLUID in my KUBOTA M7040 I went with SCHAEFFER'S #315 and couldn't be happier with my RESULTS. I to am a AMSOIL DEALER and have been since 1990 but was PRICED out of my BUDGET when I retired a few years ago. My son uses it in all of his 6 cars and truck and would use nothing else but money is no issue with him. He works for the GOVERMENT!! AMSOIL is a GOOD ALTERNATIVE if you so choose BUT WITH SCHAEFFER'S they go beyond MIN. SPECS. on there PRODUCTS. In the end what do YOU want to use after all it's your equipment and your MONEY. SCHAEFFER'S by the way COST's around $20 / GALLON .

 

[Laderbuilt]

That is why I switched from Amsoil to Schaeffers. I wasn't doing extended drains anymore. I'm not abusing my equipment weather that is car, truck, or tractor. I do believe Amsoil is a great option but I wasn't get my $$$ out of it. With Schaeffers I'm Savin some money still getting I robust product that doesn't go out of spec after 500miles or 5 hrs. Plus I like there business model a little more. There not as "pushy" as Amsoil can be at times.

 

[WayneJessie]

That is why I switched from Amsoil to Schaeffers. I wasn't doing extended drains anymore. I'm not abusing my equipment weather that is car, truck, or tractor. I do believe Amsoil is a great option but I wasn't get my $$$ out of it. With Schaeffers I'm Savin some money still getting I robust product that doesn't go out of spec after 500miles or 5 hrs. Plus I like there business model a little more. There not as "pushy" as Amsoil can be at times.

Schaeffer has an extremely loyal customer base in the trucking and mining industries. If your product can thrive in the mining industry it'll have no problem in a tractor. They do little to no national advertising which keeps their products a good value for the quality that they are. I also ran Amsoil for several years but have had great results and a better price from Schaeffer oils.
Still, if I ran the Kubota spec'd intervals I would probably run SUDT or another lower cost fluid. Same with the engine oil.

 

[roadhunter]

That is why I switched from Amsoil to Schaeffers. I wasn't doing extended drains anymore. I'm not abusing my equipment weather that is car, truck, or tractor. I do believe Amsoil is a great option but I wasn't get my $$$ out of it. With Schaeffers I'm Savin some money still getting I robust product that doesn't go out of spec after 500miles or 5 hrs. Plus I like there business model a little more. There not as "pushy" as Amsoil can be at times.

Amsoil was abusing your equipment and went out of spec at 500 miles?

 

[Laderbuilt]

No sorry I'm saying Schaeffers offers value while still being a robust fluid /add pack that won't fail "go out of spec" after a little use. Amsoil is a great fluid for just about any product they offer but I wasn't doing extended drains or falling into severe service on my cars, tractor etc so it wasn't prudent to pay the premium. Schaeffers does just as well for my needs and doesn't cost as much.

 

[sixdogs]

The only problem I have with Amsoil is the marketing arrangement that makes so many people paid dealers. Even though they may not be biased, the fact they get paid to sell the product makes their recommendation not admissible. Amsoil is a great product I would like to use it if the price was better but for that I would have to be a dealer and I will not pay a markup to a third party I don't have to. So I don't use it out of principle.

I can vouch for SUD2 and have done so in other threads. Probably any synthetic oil would work but SUDT2 makes my B7800 not whine when compared to other name brand but non-synthetic oil I put in. For my hydraulic shuttle shift tractors, the difference when the oil is cold is profound. Regular, name brand non-synthetic oil shifts slowly at first and needs to warm up to function as I have come to expect in the summer. Warm up in the cold can take a long time.

In my gear drive Plain Jane non-hydro and non-shuttle Kubotas, regular Deere oil works great just like plain old SUD does. I just happen to have the Deere oil so I use that. For those people using Kubotas in third world countries and using whatever oil they have, that's fine because they are gear drive and not hydros or shuttle shifts. Just my two cents here.

 

[orezok]

I have no doubt that Amsoil or Schaffers are good oils, but when I need a new suit I don't buy a "one size fits all", I have a taylor make one that fits exactly. i.e. Kubota oil in a Kubota.

 

[ray66v]

SCHAEFFER'S by the way COST's around $20 / GALLON .

Where are you buying #315 for $20 a gallon?

All the prices I see on it, are close to $40 a gallon. Which is nearly as much as Amsoil ATH.