Just Sold my John Deere 4410 w420 loader, now what, seeing Red?

[BigToeTN]

Fella comes on Wednesday to pick up my 2004 John Deere 4410 with 758 hours on it. He's getting a good deal and I'm moving on.

I've got my eye on the Massey 2705e HST ($26500) for a few reasons:
1) 2705 is simple, it has none of the load match/cruse control/stall prevention, techno gizmo's that caused my JD4410 to throw error codes every time I worked the machine (light would usually go off next time I started it).
2) layout is intuitive and comfortable for me, hydro treadle peddle was easy to adjust to on the test drive (I didn't expect that)
3) has the extendable link arms, one set of extra remotes (not something I currently use, but one set is standard so they are there if I do need them)
4) established dealer has 2 locations within 20 miles of me and while the sales man is a bit too used car lot for me I believe I could get service if I needed it.
5) steel floor, steel fenders and hood, tractor just seems sturdy. it feels like taking the JD's and Ford's of my youth and adding Hydro drive.

For ***** & giggles I went by the local JD dealer since they have "while charging hi rates for it" provided prompt service and are very well established in my market.
JD 4044m ($28800) is their no nonsense model of the same weight and slightly less hp than the MF
1) Said it was made in the USA (Georgia plant) which I tend to be sympathetic to.
2) I was disappointed with the amount of plastic, the fenders, hood and even the floor of the operator station was black plastic rather than rubber pad.
3) The loader was fixed on the m series
4) It didn't have the extra rear remote
5) wiring and plumbing layout seemed open and exposed under and low on the sides of the machine (I have 50 acres to brush hog three times a year)

As you can see, I'm looking for the modern convenience of the Hydro but not all the electrical gizmo's that cause error codes down the road. FYI, I really liked the Kioti NX5010 at 4000# ($26500) but it has all the added features that drive me nuts with my JD4410 so I have 2 Questions:

1) Is anyone else disappointed in the quality of the new John Deere stuff?
2) Does anyone have actual seat time with either of these machines that can comment on your experience and thoughts?

Thanks

Jason

 

[BigToeTN]

Nothing really, let's Bump it and see if we get any comments.

 

[PHPaul]

I owned a JD750 for 28 years. Yanmar-built, but all steel, and tougher than a baked owl. I worked the dickens out of that tractor the whole time I owned it with never a major repair. In fact, the only repair outside the usual consumables was a new alternator and regulator.

A couple of years ago, I decided my wrinkled old butt deserved three things that the JD didn't have: A cab, power steering and a live PTO. So I went shopping.

JD didn't even make the first cut for a number of reasons.

1. As you noted, too much plastic.
2. Too many electronic doodads to crap out.
3. Price was just insane.
4. Local dealer is a jerk, next nearest dealer is a couple of hours away.

I looked at the Massey Ferguson line. I was very favorably impressed, but they didn't offer a cab until well above my horsepower requirements, and I wound up with a Kubota.

 

[Texasmark]

Got a new neighbor, never been in a tractor seat, bought the new 4052R (deluxe model 4052 hydro with cab and loader) with associated JD implements. Seem to have adapted to the purchase very nicely; large enough to get some work done, but small and deluxe enough so as to not intimidate them. Green was the color of choice because of their customer service for non "farm adapted" folks that need someone to call and provide field service when they need things done. Yes it costs more but you get what you pay for (hopefully).

 

[BigToeTN]

Well, while I wait for my AG tax exemption certificate....I figured I would go by the Kioti (dedicated) and the Massey/Mahindra dealers for my last pre purchase evaluation.

Evaluating the Kioti NX5010 and the Massey Ferguson 2705e:

Kioti:
1) I like the guy at the Kioti dealer, just a nice guy and clean facility.
2) fit and finish on the NX5010 are really good.
3) has lots of extra features, not something I'm overly interested in but with price being equal it is a bonus
4)50hp machine at 4000#, it's hefty.

MF 2705e:
1) I am drawn to this tractor because of its rugged simplicity, telescopic rear link, rear remotes, hydro and nothing else to go wrong.
2) I'm not sold on the Massey sales man, he's slightly used car like.
3) this tractor handles really well like a CUT should, but it just feels beefier and bigger than the NX5010 despite advertised weight being 200#'s less than the NX5010.

I let both dealers know I will make a decision next week so we'll see who comes up with the best deal and calls me back.

I think both are good choices, guess I should just pray about it and let God make the choice obvious for me.

Jason

 

[BigToeTN]

I got to researching dealer reviews on Google between my Kioti and Massey dealers. I hate this, the Massey is my first choice by far but the dealer has two locations and both have poor service reviews with details that kind of confirm my suspicion about them being used car sales like.

The Kioti dealer had good reviews with details that supports my impression of his facility and how nice it has been to get educated by him.

As much as I want/like the Massey 2705e, my gut tells me the Kioti NX5010 will be a better experience especially if I have a problem with it. From a lot of posters on here dealer mater's a lot. I think who would I want to deal with if my machine turned into a lemon.

I'll probably make the buy on Wednesday next week, I have some work meetings the first half of the week.

Jason

 

[Beaux Duke]

I can't help much with either brand you're considering but I strongly agree with your assessment regarding techno wizardry and plastic. I went green on a lawn tractor. Big mistake. The Kohler motor rebadged as a Deere was fine but the plastic hood hinges broke in a matter of months and then the hood split down the middle apparently caused by diamond hard rays of sunshine striking it. There's no way I'd get a machine I planned to work hard that has plastic parts. Steel will bend but not plastic and I'll bet those plastic parts aren't cheap (maybe for the manufacturer but not you or me). If you're brush hogging 50 acres and are worried about the hydraulics you're going to really love having plastic fenders.

As for the techno wizardry, I prefer to do without it. When it works, it's great. When it fails... Arrgh!

Good luck with your final decision.

 

[plowhog]

I have only limited experience, as I have only purchased two tractors. But I disagree that selection of a dealer is as important as selection of the tractor. Bottom line, if your tractor is a lemon, you are *not* going to be happy working with your dealer no matter what the brand and color. I don't completely ignore who the dealer is, but I put much less emphasis on this than others.

You're not entering a dating relationship with any dealer, nor really even becoming a friend. They each view you as a revenue opportunity. Someone they can make money on. On the other hand, when you are working at your property, the functionality of your tractor is key. It needs to best meet your needs, and one brand will likely do this better than another. Everyone's needs are different. So I put my shopping emphasis on matching my needs with the tractors performance.

Finally, regarding reviews. I would put some value on knowing other customers in person and hearing their comments. First, you know they are real and actually exist. Next, you can size them up as reasonable or a never-can-please complainer. No so with online reviews. Any crackpot with a keyboard can be a reviewer. Some dealers have been known to create on-line "shill" accounts and constantly post favorable reviews of themselves, under false names. Or post complaints about competitors. I do google searches like anyone does, looking for information. But I don't put much stock in on-line reviews. I've seen some very good businesses that I have personal knowledge about skewered by just one or two folks who have an agenda.

 

[LRover]

I agree with Plowhog...very well said! If you are really concerned about the dealership, talk to the service techs to see how willing they are to answer a few questions. Your new tractor (whatever brand you choose) shouldn't spend but very little time at the dealer especially if you do normal service like changing the oil yourself.

 

[jd870]

I also agree with plowhog.I dont have alot of faith in online reviews.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I put the dealer at the top of the list.

You are "marrying" into their color for better or worse. If they are sloppy, or take you to the cleaners at every opportunity, well just remember you picked them. How quickly can they get parts? Does what ever color have a reliable parts department/supply?

Most people don't have a 1 ton truck and 20' trailer to haul their tractor to a far away dealer, but you might want to buy them if your dealer screws you. Or if they close down.

 

[CurlyDave]

My JD is getting to about 10 years old right now and I actually prefer the plastic hood and fenders. The color has held up as well as the paint on the metal parts, there are no dents or dings, despite getting hit by rocks and logs big enough to dent metal, and best of all, no rust. There is rust on some of the metal parts.

Just something to think about.

 

[motownbrowne]

The MX series from Kubota meets your HST-but-otherwise-barebones criteria. I've been nothing but pleased with mine. Worth mentioning, anyway.

 

[BigToeTN]

I appreciate your feedback guys, this is a big purchase and seeing things from different angles is important. I have 2 Massey dealers within 25 miles of me and I was disappointed in both, I felt like I was on a used car lot getting pressured into loving the tractor before they would sit and talk cash price. The cash price as stands is $28'900 for the MF 2705e Hydro, and if I search online there is a place just 120miles from me that sells this model for $25'900, I fully expected my local dealer to at least negotiate, but when I brought up the online posted pricing the pricing guy in the other room threw a fit and said he could never get there and would have to call his rep. So I reached out to the MF dealer that is 60 miles away to see what they could do before I default to the dealer in Athens, AL who is listing the tractor at $25'900. This is an economy model with a very specific feature list so there isn't much to haggle over with a cash price. The MF 2705e is by far my favorite to drive and it feels much larger than the specs let on, and If I knew 100% I wouldn't be buying a problem then I would just buy from the Alabama company and be done.

Option #2 Kioti: They have the DK5010 which is an economy (I prefer simple/economy) and decently under budget, it weight is 3380# which means I could get a useful grapple with extra remote on my loader with the extra money. However I am a bit apprehensive about the 3400# vs the 4000#'s of the NX5010. If I were to get the NX5010 I'd buy the cheaper Thumb for my bucket and run it to the rear remote that is standard on the NX5010. The smaller DK5010 has a nearly 3" narrower and shorter stance than the NX5010.
Is 600 lbs worth going up in size, I just don't have enough experience, I loved the big heavy Ford tractors of my youth, and I believe my JD4410 was to Narrow and light weight for my task (2900lbs) What I don't know is how much difference will it make going from 2900lbs up to 3380lbs??? I have less concern if I go with the NX5010 at 4000lbs.

Lots to consider, I plan to purchase at the end of this week brand will probably largely depend on if this other Massey dealer wants to make a deal. If not I'll be stuck deciding between the Kioti DK5010 and the NX5010.

Jason

 

[Lineman North Florida]

You said in an earlier post that you were going to pray about it, that's always a good way to get an answer on what we are meant to have verses what we want, if I was led in the direction of the Massey and could travel 120 miles and get it for 3k less apples to apples I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a tractor from him, good luck.

 

[BigToeTN]

I called the Massey/farm implement dealer 2 counties over, 60 miles. When I called, the sales man was on the yard so I was able to speak with a service guy a little. I get a much better feeling about this dealer, they have been in business for 16 years and sold only Massey the entire time. Salesman called back pretty quick, he was nice and to the point, he quoted me the price I was looking for, no hemhawing around, just verified the features, tires remotes etc. I will drive over at the end of this week to write a check.

To another posters comments, I looked at the Kubota mx4800, the machine was what I was looking for, but the dealer wanted $29'000 which was a few $k over my budget.

Jason

 

[Clemson327]

I'm going through the same process right now and have settled on the 2700E series after looking at several competing brands. I got a price of $27,214 from my dealer for a 2705E with a loader, R4 tires, and a second set of remotes ($700 option). You should be able to get it for $26,500 with just the single set of remotes.

I didn't like the treadle pedal after driving one so I think I'm going to go with a 2706E with the shuttle shift transmission.

 

[BigToeTN]

I can see where you, and a lot of others didn't like the Threadle peddle, I was able to adapt comfortably but can easily see where it's not for everyone. Plus you will gain some PTO HP with the shuttle.

I'm at the state now getting my AG exemption. I need to order it this week, Dealer said he would have to order the tractor and I have chores backing up since my JD sold quickly.

I can't wait for spring,. My oldest is 9 and he wants to do a popcorn crop with Japanese hulless this year. He plans on giving them as Christmas gifts this year and selling the seed in jars at next year's farmers market. We'll see how he likes it after he spins the sheller for a day or two.

Jason

 

[arrow]

I owned a JD750 for 28 years. Yanmar-built, but all steel, and tougher than a baked owl. I worked the dickens out of that tractor the whole time I owned it with never a major repair. In fact, the only repair outside the usual consumables was a new alternator and regulator.

A couple of years ago, I decided my wrinkled old butt deserved three things that the JD didn't have: A cab, power steering and a live PTO. So I went shopping.

JD didn't even make the first cut for a number of reasons.

1. As you noted, too much plastic.
2. Too many electronic doodads to crap out.
3. Price was just insane.
4. Local dealer is a jerk, next nearest dealer is a couple of hours away.

I looked at the Massey Ferguson line. I was very favorably impressed, but they didn't offer a cab until well above my horsepower requirements, and I wound up with a Kubota.

Almost to a tee of my experience with my 28 yr old 750. Nose in the air JD dealer who wanted a million bucks for their stuff while showing me next to nothing on my trade. A Mahindra dealer showing me 7K for my 750 is who I went with . Preferred the L4000 series over this Mahindra I have but the Kubota dealer was worse than the JD dealer. Wouldn't have bought that baked owl from the Kubota arrogance laden guy.

 

[BigToeTN]

I'm going through the same process right now and have settled on the 2700E series after looking at several competing brands. I got a price of $27,214 from my dealer for a 2705E with a loader, R4 tires, and a second set of remotes ($700 option). You should be able to get it for $26,500 with just the single set of remotes.

I didn't like the treadle pedal after driving one so I think I'm going to go with a 2706E with the shuttle shift transmission.

I heavily considered the 2706e with shuttle, but I've been spoiled with the JD hydro and my budget dictates the 2705e to get it. I do a lot of mowing and loader work and having had the hydro i'd have a hard time going back.
Hope we both are posting in a few years about how good these tractors are.

Jason