Can you deduct tongue weight if you are over axle capacity?

[Industrial Toys]

I didn't quite know how to word this.

I want to carry four thousand pounds in a single 3500# axle (Torflex) trailer. If the load is toward the front and I have good tongue weight and upgraded tires, will this work? It is a very sturdy trailer, not your typical lightly constructed cheapie. Also brand new.

It's a one time trip, but a long one, like sixteen hours, one way loaded!

Towing with 08 GMC 2500 Maxipad 6.6.

Thanks

 

[Diamondpilot]

Dont do it.

I have a 6x10 trailer with a 3.5K axle. It weighs 780# empty. So 3500-780=2720# for payload. Even if you add back in 350# for the 10% you are carrying on the ball this just puts you back to around 3000#

You will be overloading your trailer by 20%. What usually happens with overloaded trailers is the first dip in a road or bump like going from asphalt to concrete on a overpass bends the spindle on the axle.

My suggestion is to put half the load in your Maxipads bed or rent a proper trailer!

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

You need to deduct the trailer weight off the axel rating, so if the trailer weighs 1000lbs you can only haul a load of 2500lbs.

That's my understanding on that, and I don't think you can deduct tongue weight on a regular trailer, if it was a gooseneck trailer or 5th wheel that would be a more compelling argument to a police officer lol.

I would say your 3500lb single axle isn't nearly heavy enough.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have an ugly double axle dump trailer albeit with a valid safety, and several offers to borrow tandem trailers. The problem is I don't have a yellow safety sticker on my truck and doing so would require the E-Brake to work. Another expensive GM abortion along with those retarded disk brakes. That and who knows what front end work to safety. For one trip. But, it's looking like that might be my best option.

Thanks

As far as the axles. Wouldn't you think a 3500lb axle would actually be able to carry much more if you figure in the Dynamic forces it can encounter in normal use?

I was more wondering IF it would work, not so much the legality. If I get stopped, I may well have a host of issues anyway. I'm guessing, betting, that a single axle trailer wouldn't get a second look, unless of course, the axles are nicely bowed!

 

[CobyRupert]

So if it's calculated based on the weight IN the trailer and not on the axles, how do they know how much weight is in the trailer if you get stopped?
Do they measure the tongue weight?

 

[Industrial Toys]

Some agencies have portable scales. The trick is NOT to get stopped.

As far as my load, it's a small PTO chipper. Unfortunately, aside from the discharge chute, not much easily comes apart. Oh, it does have it's own axle without suspension, and I "almost" thought about towing it. I could see it breaking into a speed wobble, the first black top I hit!

 

[CobyRupert]

Some agencies have portable scales. The trick is NOT to get stopped.

If stopped, do they disconnect the trailer and weigh the tongue?

 

[Industrial Toys]

I don't know, but I'm guessing if they want to weigh you, they weigh the truck too and don't care where the weight is.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Also, in about 90% of the states all trailers over 3,000# must have working brakes. I'm guessing your single axle trailer does not have them so that's another consideration.

As for your question asking if there is a safety margin built into axles. The answer is yes. But what you are asking it to do falls well outside that envelope. That 4000# chipper plus the weight of the trailer itself puts you 1500# over its weight. That's about 40%

 

[RandyT]

Some states if not all require trailer brakes on trailers over 3000 lbs. So even if you are within the limits of the trailer you are still in violation because of no trailer brakes.

Your 3500 lbs trailer axle will have a weight rating set by the axle manufacturer of 3750 lbs. On some single axle trailer the center bow of the axle will hit the floor of the trailer before you reach the maximum payload of the axle so the trailer itself will cause the axle to bow more than it should with the weight that is on it.

 

[coolreinfarm]

My brother in law was a state trooper in truck weight enforcement if he saw a trailer with the wheels bowed from overload, after the fines you will park it and pay to get it back. I see people all the time with utility trailers with a pile of wet mulch on the side of the road with an axle snapped off. Your situation with no ebrakes and have to stop suddenly could be catastrophic.

 

[boggen]

rent a trailer. or uShip | The Online Shipping Marketplace and have someone else deal with it.

but your comment of already having an axle on it and 4,000lbs sounds like it is already designed to be placed on road. possibly even a license plate spot some place on the rear end. 4,000lbs seems rather beefy chipper unit! not talking a little 3pt hitch unit, that lifts up and down with 3pt hitch of tractor. but a unit that requires a wheels. and most likely a tongue on it to be pulled like a trailer. vs connection to 3pt hitch linkages.

 

[LD1]

IF you were to be stopped, the only thing that matters is what each axle weights (and what the tires are rated for) and that none of them are over.

So if you put your 4000# load forward, and lets assume the trailer weighs 800#.....There will be 4800# behind the truck. IF you loaded it with 1300# tongue weight or more....that puts less than 3500# on the trailer. If the truck axle dont go over its rating or its tire rating....And you arent exceeding the rating of the hitch's tongue weight.....then yes you would technically be legal.

However I havent seen a single axle utility trailer that I would trust with 1300# on the tongue.

So short answer is YES tongue weight does come off the trailer rating. But with an uneven load being nose heavy.....you can still do some damage and may not be a safe load.

 

[2458n]

In Ohio your mortar mixer, log splitter, air compressor and the like do not require a plate. Sixteen hour is not a short trip and I doubt very much if this is taken into
the design of a non commercial chipper. Wild ride if you get a flat on the trailer.

 

[Stimw]

FYI-
With Semi's larger trucking companies will have their own scales.
When a load is close on the weight they will scale it, then adjust the trailer tandem with slider rails to be legal.
There also is a slider rail on the 5th wheel that can be adjusted for weight distribution.
Overweight fines are very expensive!! And it is normal to make the truck/trailer unload the excessive weight before moving. Also expensive.
Do you have something like U-Haul in Canada that rents trailers. They normally have surge brakes so no controller needed.

 

[ovrszd]

IF you were to be stopped, the only thing that matters is what each axle weights (and what the tires are rated for) and that none of them are over.

So if you put your 4000# load forward, and lets assume the trailer weighs 800#.....There will be 4800# behind the truck. IF you loaded it with 1300# tongue weight or more....that puts less than 3500# on the trailer. If the truck axle dont go over its rating or its tire rating....And you arent exceeding the rating of the hitch's tongue weight.....then yes you would technically be legal.

However I havent seen a single axle utility trailer that I would trust with 1300# on the tongue.

So short answer is YES tongue weight does come off the trailer rating. But with an uneven load being nose heavy.....you can still do some damage and may not be a safe load.

Awwwww,,,,,,, 13 posts into this thread before logic shows up.

I have nothing to add to this post. Spot on.

 

[Rustyiron]

I've "snuck by" on many overloaded trips, but short trips. The only trouble I've ever had was on a long, hwy speeds trip, usually I believe from overheating the tires that are at or near their capacity. Road side trouble really sucks 8 hours from home.

 

[hawkeye08]

A trailer rated for 3500lbs has already considered part of that weight will be on the tongue. You would be wise to check the ratings of the tires and make sure your bearings are greased. I would be tempted to run at a higher cold psi on the tires to help with the over heating issue. I have heard, but not confirmed that many trailer tires have a note that says you can tow faster by inflating 10psi over. Make sure to have a spare (maybe two if you can borrow a second one) and basic tools to change a tire. Make sure the trailer lights are working properly.

 

[TSO]

Overloading only applies during commerce (commercial motor vehicles). Civil liability applies always.

There are no violations for a recreational driver overloading their GAWR or GVWR. Those are recommended weights by the manufacturer. It's no different than putting too much Ikea furniture in the back of your minivan... You can't be ticketed for that as long as the load is properly secured.

However, if you get into a serious accident that requires a comprehensive police investigation, it will come into play. If you are responsible for the accident, and it is determined that you overloaded the vehicle, it will likely contribute to your negligence.

If you were NOT at fault in that serious accident, an attorney will still make an effort to claim you were partly responsible by making your vehicle unsafe to be on the road, and you'll likely be sued.

If you're still intent on making the trip, it would probably be safer to load the weight in the back of your truck, as far forward as possible.

And again, going over your GVWR or GAWR will not be enforced in non-commercial applications.

 

[Looking4new]

I have an ugly double axle dump trailer albeit with a valid safety, and several offers to borrow tandem trailers. The problem is I don't have a yellow safety sticker on my truck and doing so would require the E-Brake to work. Another expensive GM abortion along with those retarded disk brakes. That and who knows what front end work to safety. For one trip. But, it's looking like that might be my best option.

Thanks

As far as the axles. Wouldn't you think a 3500lb axle would actually be able to carry much more if you figure in the Dynamic forces it can encounter in normal use?

I was more wondering IF it would work, not so much the legality. If I get stopped, I may well have a host of issues anyway. I'm guessing, betting, that a single axle trailer wouldn't get a second look, unless of course, the axles are nicely bowed!

Hot tip for you! Last week there was a safety/spot check on ALL pickups and cars including vans towing trailers on the 400 at Barrie. Overloads were forced to go get increased licenses and commercial plates BEFORE they could proceed with the said trailers.