Buying Advice Kioti NX or RX and horsepower needed

[trctorfan17]

Short answer. You don't need a tractor.
Long answer. You will probably find lots of use for a tractor. But you need to balance your desires with reality. And figure out how much you want to spend and how much you are willing to lose on resale if you don't keep it.

From my experience landscapers for the type of job you are talking about are middle men. They hire other people to do the work. Sometimes those other people have an idea player who does the work. You are paying for expertise in planning and organization. You need to find the actual independent owner/operator of the mini ex. I would guess your total cost to be 1500 per day. Connecticut is probably higher cost than Virginia so it may be more than that. But a trailered mini ex, driven to your location and operated for a single day of digging. I would be surprised to have that come out to more than 1500. You will only find out by making contact with the operators.
If you have a local general store where people gather the. You need to go have a cup of coffee there and talk to people. Beware that some people will recognize you as fresh meat and try to work over with a "cityboy tax". But some folks are just honest hard worker NG people. Their time isn't free. And they charge enough to make a good profit but aren't out for an unfair profit.

I have found that it costs less to hire a crane with operator for the day than to rent a telehandler to put up post and beam on my house. Best part for me is they know exactly what they are doing. It gets done faster. They bring and take away the equipment.
But you have to start making contact with people and get recommendations.

Great ideas, thank you very much.... That seems to be the ideal solution.

 

[mopardude318]

I say get your tractor and get to work. You'll learn, won't be efficient at first, but nobody is... It'll be a valuable tool for as long as you have acreage. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Good luck!:thumbsup:

 

[Coyote machine]

I hire one guy with years of experience operating excavators from large to small. He is now completely independent, has his own mini-ex and small dump truck. He has access to a tri-axle for hauling stone and other things like roller as warranted.
IIRC, it cost me $80/hr for the mini-ex, $40/hr for the operator and so on. So basically $120/hour to get things done by a professional who is efficient at operating his machine(s).

Just had a torrential rainstorm(s) damage much of my ditches, culvert area and driveway(s) at my main house/barn and adjacent 'for sale' flip house. I had just last summer/fall built my implement shed close to my ditch/woods line and had I gone closer to the ditch/woods I would likely have had sustained damage to my shed's poured Alaskan slab foundation. Fortunately my contractor strongly urged me to place the shed and two aprons further from the woods for better access turning in and out with the tractor and list of implements shown in my signature.

Now I'm likely going to have to spend $10K or more on re-excavating a lot of the ditches and driveway damage around my 30' deep 50' wide barn with attached enclosed boat bay and above apartment with rear entry workshop and extra 'garage bay' for overflow storage.

Again, I consider myself fortunate to have had an excavator who did the work for the barn and carved it out of wooded land that I and my son and one of his friends cleared of dense trees. The excavator knows the land in my area and dug a 14' deep curtain drain around the rear and one side of the barn. Had he not done so then, before Irene and Sandy hit the Northeast, I would likely have uncontrollable flooding at my boat bay and adjacent 3 garage bays at the lower level of the barn.

As it is now I have to redo much of what I had to redo once Irene and Sandy wreaked havoc in our area - bring in larger stone to keep the ditches from having their existing stone washed downhill to the end of my driveway. I lost count at 70 bucket loads in my DK-40, which I hauled up my 400' uphill drive to make a foundation for my Shelter Logic storage building. The constant haul was a total PITA after about 10 loads, but I needed it done and didn't want to pay at the time to have someone else do it, and I had a machine on hand, though slow to get it done.

My point in detailing this out to you is an experienced conscientious person who has years of local terrain knowledge can help immensely in deciding how and where and when to do certain thing like ditching, drainage pipe sizing, etc.
I'm always the final decision maker, but I listen to and ask questions and make suggestions and require certain things of those working with/for me.
Currently we've decide to have the excavator bring in bigger rock to create a catch basin above where the various washouts have occurred over the years. We've learned from the damage done by the storms what works well and what needs revision.

Fighting mother nature is often a losing battle, but having done battle with her for the last 35 years here tells me we're gaining on it overall.

So conclusion for me is; learn from those with existing experience in your local area, chances are they've encountered it all over their years doing battle and you can save on trying to reinvent the wheel.

And the thinking is if one has too high expectations one is most likely to experience disappointment. This cognitive behavioral therapy caveat holds true with your desire to get the 'perfect cut' on your fields grass. Are you going to be creating a home golf course, something the ultra-wealthy in my neighborhood knock themselves out doing, or can you get by with a nicely mowed field which looks good from a short distance?
You can have either, but at what point is the cost beyond belief, or nearly unobtainable?

I saw what Kioti offers yesterday at my dealer's lot for a rear finish mower. It did look to be a woods rebrand, and had 4 gauge wheels, one on each corner. But will it produce a clean enough cut for a manicured look field? I think not likely as Woodchuckdad and IT have said - there are good, better, and ridiculously priced mowers to tow behind a tractor available. You have to chose what will work best for you and then accept the decision's result. Hopefully it will be close enough to your expectations for you to be satisfied with the end result. Few things in life are even close to perfect.

 

[trctorfan17]

I hire one guy with years of experience operating excavators from large to small. He is now completely independent, has his own mini-ex and small dump truck. He has access to a tri-axle for hauling stone and other things like roller as warranted.
IIRC, it cost me $80/hr for the mini-ex, $40/hr for the operator and so on. So basically $120/hour to get things done by a professional who is efficient at operating his machine(s).

Just had a torrential rainstorm(s) damage much of my ditches, culvert area and driveway(s) at my main house/barn and adjacent 'for sale' flip house. I had just last summer/fall built my implement shed close to my ditch/woods line and had I gone closer to the ditch/woods I would likely have had sustained damage to my shed's poured Alaskan slab foundation. Fortunately my contractor strongly urged me to place the shed and two aprons further from the woods for better access turning in and out with the tractor and list of implements shown in my signature.

Now I'm likely going to have to spend $10K or more on re-excavating a lot of the ditches and driveway damage around my 30' deep 50' wide barn with attached enclosed boat bay and above apartment with rear entry workshop and extra 'garage bay' for overflow storage.

Again, I consider myself fortunate to have had an excavator who did the work for the barn and carved it out of wooded land that I and my son and one of his friends cleared of dense trees. The excavator knows the land in my area and dug a 14' deep curtain drain around the rear and one side of the barn. Had he not done so then, before Irene and Sandy hit the Northeast, I would likely have uncontrollable flooding at my boat bay and adjacent 3 garage bays at the lower level of the barn.

As it is now I have to redo much of what I had to redo once Irene and Sandy wreaked havoc in our area - bring in larger stone to keep the ditches from having their existing stone washed downhill to the end of my driveway. I lost count at 70 bucket loads in my DK-40, which I hauled up my 400' uphill drive to make a foundation for my Shelter Logic storage building. The constant haul was a total PITA after about 10 loads, but I needed it done and didn't want to pay at the time to have someone else do it, and I had a machine on hand, though slow to get it done.

My point in detailing this out to you is an experienced conscientious person who has years of local terrain knowledge can help immensely in deciding how and where and when to do certain thing like ditching, drainage pipe sizing, etc.
I'm always the final decision maker, but I listen to and ask questions and make suggestions and require certain things of those working with/for me.
Currently we've decide to have the excavator bring in bigger rock to create a catch basin above where the various washouts have occurred over the years. We've learned from the damage done by the storms what works well and what needs revision.

Fighting mother nature is often a losing battle, but having done battle with her for the last 35 years here tells me we're gaining on it overall.

So conclusion for me is; learn from those with existing experience in your local area, chances are they've encountered it all over their years doing battle and you can save on trying to reinvent the wheel.

And the thinking is if one has too high expectations one is most likely to experience disappointment. This cognitive behavioral therapy caveat holds true with your desire to get the 'perfect cut' on your fields grass. Are you going to be creating a home golf course, something the ultra-wealthy in my neighborhood knock themselves out doing, or can you get by with a nicely mowed field which looks good from a short distance?
You can have either, but at what point is the cost beyond belief, or nearly unobtainable?

I saw what Kioti offers yesterday at my dealer's lot for a rear finish mower. It did look to be a woods rebrand, and had 4 gauge wheels, one on each corner. But will it produce a clean enough cut for a manicured look field? I think not likely as Woodchuckdad and IT have said - there are good, better, and ridiculously priced mowers to tow behind a tractor available. You have to chose what will work best for you and then accept the decision's result. Hopefully it will be close enough to your expectations for you to be satisfied with the end result. Few things in life are even close to perfect.

Oh man, that is really tough.

It is a challenge how to do this right to minimize future risk, but like you said, it is practically impossible to eliminate those risks.

I like the idea of trying to find a good operator, I will be happy to rent any needed equipment. I just have to take my time finding the right help.

I am just amazed how much I learned in five days since I joined TBN.

As always, thank you very much for such an invaluable advice.

 

[IslandTractor]

Few things in life are even close to perfect.

Nah. All tractors are perfect. You just need to make sure you pick the one that matches your needs and know enough to have realistic expectations.

Seriously, any of the top six or seven brands of tractor are solid reliable machines that can out perform a dozen or more young motivated men with hand tools. Given that the tractor operator doesn't even break a sweat out working those dozen, I'd argue all tractors are perfect.

The key is being realistic about what you are trying to do and how long it takes to do it. Guys with time on their hands tend to be happy with their tractors because they know that their tractors save their backs and get the job done. Guys in a rush have more trouble because tractors can get work done but cannot make days longer or otherwise relieve time pressure. Tractors are more tortoise than hare. Steady reliable workhorses, not speedy but flighty thoroughbreds. If you can understand and accept that dynamic then tractors are perfect. If on reflection the time factor is problematic then hiring out the work will make you happier.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Nah. All tractors are perfect. You just need to make sure you pick the one that matches your needs and know enough to have realistic expectations.

Seriously, any of the top six or seven brands of tractor are solid reliable machines that can out perform a dozen or more young motivated men with hand tools. Given that the tractor operator doesn't even break a sweat out working those dozen, I'd argue all tractors are perfect.

The key is being realistic about what you are trying to do and how long it takes to do it. Guys with time on their hands tend to be happy with their tractors because they know that their tractors save their backs and get the job done. Guys in a rush have more trouble because tractors can get work done but cannot make days longer or otherwise relieve time pressure. Tractors are more tortoise than hare. Steady reliable workhorses, not speedy but flighty thoroughbreds. If you can understand and accept that dynamic then tractors are perfect. If on reflection the time factor is problematic then hiring out the work will make you happier.

Very well put.

 

[Coyote machine]

Originally Posted by Coyote machine:
"Few things in life are even close to perfect".

I was referring to people's expectations, and how if they expect perfection they are more than likely going to be disappointed; whereas if they have reasonable expectations then thing might live up to them, and they could be less disappointed more of the time.

I agree, the Kioti's I've owned have been close to perfect as any mechanical device is likely to be.
And certainly treatment of the tractor, and how one uses and or abuses it to get things done definitely factors in.

 

[IslandTractor]

One more thought trktorfan,

You mentioned that plan B might be to buy a tractor and mowing equipment and then find local labor to run it. The more I think about that it seems a risky proposition. You don't have experience yourself setting up or maintaining the equipment. Maybe the hired help does but maybe not. You have all sorts of liability issues to consider and if you have them do enough mowing you have 1099 issues. Seems it might be simpler and less hassle to just contract the mowing out to an established landscaper. Shouldn't be hard to get quotes on a weekly 10 acre job. Then you have fewer worries or financial exposure. Just arrive for the weekend and enjoy yourself.

 

[trctorfan17]

One more thought trktorfan,

You mentioned that plan B might be to buy a tractor and mowing equipment and then find local labor to run it. The more I think about that it seems a risky proposition. You don't have experience yourself setting up or maintaining the equipment. Maybe the hired help does but maybe not. You have all sorts of liability issues to consider and if you have them do enough mowing you have 1099 issues. Seems it might be simpler and less hassle to just contract the mowing out to an established landscaper. Shouldn't be hard to get quotes on a weekly 10 acre job. Then you have fewer worries or financial exposure. Just arrive for the weekend and enjoy yourself.

Great point IT.

I'll make sure to either have them have their own insurance or get them to sign a waiver.

As for setting up and maintaining tractor, I'll hire someone to do that too...I am not buying a tractor to work on it myself. Like you guys said before, I will leave it to the experts...to even change the oil.

That's why I am also looking to build a barn, as a workshop for the tractor.

 

[IslandTractor]

Great point IT.

I'll make sure to either have them have their own insurance or get them to sign a waiver.

As for setting up and maintaining tractor, I'll hire someone to do that too...I am not buying a tractor to work on it myself. Like you guys said before, I will leave it to the experts...to even change the oil.

That's why I am also looking to build a barn, as a workshop for the tractor.

Might make the most sense to have a landscaper do it for now and then for you to take over as you gain experience. I cringe at the idea of turning over a brand new tractor to someone who claims to have experience. If he has commercial experience he also probably beats the snot out of equipment he doesn't own. If he lacks experience, well then he's going to be learning at your expense. Best to let someone bring his own equipment to do the job. You can get an idea of how well that equipment works in your setting before you need to buy. In my experience there are only a few dealers who really work hard to match folks up with the best equipment and most just want to sell you something. To be fair, it's hard for a dealer to assess a neophyte's needs especially if he hasn't walked the property which rarely happens. Better for you to have some specific on site experiences, even just watching pro landscapers or farmers, to correlate equipment and time to finish the job so you have specifics to discuss with a dealer. You can also play with variables like how frequently to mow to get the look you want and whether all the land needs the same level of mowing to keep you happy. My advice is to let an independent professional landscaping company or local farmer do the work for a year while you educate yourself and consider options without the time pressure you seem under right now.