JD 165 Starter Issue

[BobOB1775]

I have a 1987 Deere which is running very good with the exception of every now and then I have to tap the starter with a hammer to get the unit to engage. I replaced the starter 2 years ago with a brand new unit because it was doing the same thing. The new unit worked like a charm for a year and now I get the intermitted turn the key and nothing happens until I bring out the hammer. Does anyone have an idea what is causing this problem? Did I a defective starter?

 

[Richard001]

Bob,

It could be that the starter ring on the engine is worn causing the starter to jam when it tries to start.

Can you get a look at the starter ring gear to see if it has a problem? You may have to remove the starter to see.

Richard

 

[Spanner]

I have a 1987 Deere which is running very good with the exception of every now and then I have to tap the starter with a hammer to get the unit to engage. I replaced the starter 2 years ago with a brand new unit because it was doing the same thing. The new unit worked like a charm for a year and now I get the intermitted turn the key and nothing happens until I bring out the hammer. Does anyone have an idea what is causing this problem? Did I a defective starter?

The Kawasaki uses the pre-engaged type starter with integral solenoid. These are fully rebuildable so you may have saved money if you repaired the original rather than replacing the whole unit.

Anyway, two different scenarios are mentioned in your above post. That's probably just you failing to describe matters correctly, but I'll address each seperately.

"Tapping the starter with a hammer to get it to engage" - This implies (rightly or wrongly) that the starter is spinning but the pinion is not engaging the flywheel. That is unlikely unless you have a defective 'yoke' which pushes the pinion into gear before the solenoid closes to make the starter rotate. Or the flywheel ring-gear teeth (or pinion teeth) are worn as mentioned by Richard.

"Turn the key and nothing happens" - This implies the solenoid is failing to pull-in which would firstly 'engage' the pinion before activation (i.e. 'Pre-engage' the pinion, hence its name) of the starter rotation phase of this 'Start' operation.

This latter is more likely rather than the former scenario.

So... tell me - You turn the key, nothing happens, you 'tap' the starter and the solenoid pulls-in causing the starter to engage then rotate the engine??

If so, you need to overhaul the solenoid or fit a new solenoid kit. (Part No. AM102577)

Moisture is the most common cause of solenoid failure. Did the engine get wet somehow?

Please confirm which scenario is occurring on your machine.
:wrench:

 

[Egon]

In past days it was quite common to have to tap the starter solenoid to get engagement. Exspecially so in cold weather.

Sometimes a little lube helps.

 

[crazyal]

I think more information is needed. "nothing happens" sounds like the starter isn't doing anything which, I agree, sounds like the solenoid. I would think that you should here a click from the solenoid when you turn the key into the start position.

 

[BobOB1775]

At times I turn the key and there is dead silence. No clicking, no noise, etc. The battery is in excellent shape. This tractor is always garaged when not working. The starter and solenoid still look brand new. If I lightly tap the starter/solenoid it immediately starts. I can shut it off and the next time it starts without and issue. Just puzzled. I'm wondering if I got a bad starter and solenoid or if there is a bad wire. Any thoughts?

 

[Spanner]

At times I turn the key and there is dead silence. No clicking, no noise, etc. The battery is in excellent shape. This tractor is always garaged when not working. The starter and solenoid still look brand new. If I lightly tap the starter/solenoid it immediately starts. I can shut it off and the next time it starts without and issue. Just puzzled. I'm wondering if I got a bad starter and solenoid or if there is a bad wire. Any thoughts?

From what you've written here by way of clarification, I believe the problem is with your solenoid on this starter motor. (Can't speak for your earlier SM).

This is all providing the battery is as good as you say and the battery cables & connectors are as well.

If it was something like a faulty Ignition Switch I don't think tapping the SM would help.

Your test to prove the ignition switch now is easy. - Connect a 'circuit tester' lamp to the chassis Earth/Ground. Apply the probe point to the Purple (I think) tag wire terminal at the starter solenoid. (The little thin wires' terminal.)

(With your Park Brake set 'On' and your PTO set 'Off'), Now turn the key to 'Start' position.

The circuit tester lamp should glow. That proves the ignition switch is passing power.

The starter should activate as well. If the light glows but the starter doesn't activate your problem is in the solenoid.
No light? No power through Ignition Switch.

Did you buy/fit a genuine JD starter or an aftermarket item??

:wrench:

 

[Dave M7040]

If Spanner's suggestion shows power to the solenoid then I would take a different approach and carefully apply 12 volts from the battery + to the purple wire on the solenoid.

You are by passing all safety switches so smart to have someone on the seat with foot on the brake and make certain blades are disengaged..

There are several safety switches that are in series with each other and each develops some resistance on its contacts over time and then there is not enough current flow to pull the solenoid.

The hammer tap overcomes the internal friction allowing the amps you are sending to pull the solenoid are enough.

If the 12 volts direct to the solenoid works, we can talk about installing a simple relay to overcome the resistance in the safety switches.

This is an example on a Cub Cadet

Dave M7040

 

[BobOB1775]

If Spanner's suggestion shows power to the solenoid then I would take a different approach and carefully apply 12 volts from the battery + to the purple wire on the solenoid.

You are by passing all safety switches so smart to have someone on the seat with foot on the brake and make certain blades are disengaged..

There are several safety switches that are in series with each other and each develops some resistance on its contacts over time and then there is not enough current flow to pull the solenoid.

The hammer tap overcomes the internal friction allowing the amps you are sending to pull the solenoid are enough.

If the 12 volts direct to the solenoid works, we can talk about installing a simple relay to overcome the resistance in the safety switches.

This is an example on a Cub Cadet

Dave M7040

That sounds like it might work. What do you suggest?

 

[Spanner]

If Spanner's suggestion shows power to the solenoid then ...

Dave M7040

As Dave and I asked - Have you got power to the small wire at the solenoid (purple ?) wire EVERY time you turn the key to 'Start' ?