Tesla semi

[Egon]

Hydrogen cells may have some merit. Refuelling would be in the same time frame as hydrocarbon.

 

[toppop52]

The old stories on hydrogen were, “Just fill the tank with sea water and drive for a month.” I don’t see that one, but the hydrogen cells are interesting.

 

[PILOON]

I'll add another factor to consider.
TAXATION
Roads are generally paid for and maintained via taxation income and that is generally levied at the gas pump.
Will all road maintenance taxation be applied at large? at the charging stations? and then if plugged in at home you then avoid road taxes.

Now then diesel fuel is used for trucking because there is more BTU's of energy than gasoline per gallon (thing weight and volume)
Batteries are HEAVY (and bulky) so more HP is needed to haul the same loads.

A comparison is aircraft. They never simply fill up but carefully calculate how much fuel needed to go from A to B.
So much true that the FAA had to regulate to assure there was a suitable reserve to get to the next closest airport.
It cost fuel to haul fuel! and that's money. (profit)

Maybe the answer will become, one battery to go from A-B and 2 batteries to go from A-C. etc.

I always think of fork lift trucks and the massive batteries just to maintain a shift.\
In some cases users have up to 3 batteries per forklift just to cover shifts.

 

[houstonscott]

I'll add another factor to consider. TAXATION Roads are generally paid for and maintained via taxation income and that is generally levied at the gas pump. Will all road maintenance taxation be applied at large? at the charging stations? and then if plugged in at home you then avoid road taxes. Now then diesel fuel is used for trucking because there is more BTU's of energy than gasoline per gallon (thing weight and volume) Batteries are HEAVY (and bulky) so more HP is needed to haul the same loads. A comparison is aircraft. They never simply fill up but carefully calculate how much fuel needed to go from A to B. So much true that the FAA had to regulate to assure there was a suitable reserve to get to the next closest airport. It cost fuel to haul fuel! and that's money. (profit) Maybe the answer will become, one battery to go from A-B and 2 batteries to go from A-C. etc. I always think of fork lift trucks and the massive batteries just to maintain a shift.\ In some cases users have up to 3 batteries per forklift just to cover shifts.

Good thought, how should EV pay to use roads they don't pay for... 32 cents a kilowatt added to recharges?

 

[toppop52]

I'll add another factor to consider.
TAXATION
Roads are generally paid for and maintained via taxation income and that is generally levied at the gas pump.
Will all road maintenance taxation be applied at large? at the charging stations? and then if plugged in at home you then avoid road taxes.

Now then diesel fuel is used for trucking because there is more BTU's of energy than gasoline per gallon (thing weight and volume)
Batteries are HEAVY (and bulky) so more HP is needed to haul the same loads.

A comparison is aircraft. They never simply fill up but carefully calculate how much fuel needed to go from A to B.
So much true that the FAA had to regulate to assure there was a suitable reserve to get to the next closest airport.
It cost fuel to haul fuel! and that's money. (profit)

Maybe the answer will become, one battery to go from A-B and 2 batteries to go from A-C. etc.

I always think of fork lift trucks and the massive batteries just to maintain a shift.\
In some cases users have up to 3 batteries per forklift just to cover shifts.

Taxes are also the reason there is dye in diesel, do you can’t cheat and run #2 heating oil.

 

[Redneck in training]

You can tax polution aka carbon tax. ICE polutes about 5 times more than electric if charged from coal or NG. Electric polutes near zero if chharged from wind, water or solar.

 

[houstonscott]

You can tax polution aka carbon tax. ICE polutes about 5 times more than electric if charged from coal or NG. Electric polutes near zero if chharged from wind, water or solar.

government can tax nearly anything. Your road gas taxes aren't about pollution, they are about paying for the road you are using. I haven't seen any evidence ICE pollutes more then electric, only evidential studies I can find show electric is far more inefficient and maybe the worst thing you could do with electric power would be to charge batteries for automobile transportation. Your wind solar hydro statement is so far fetched in realizing it's not even worth discussing.

 

[California]

re taxation: That's a problem to be worked out. Maybe higher annual vehicle registration fees is the place to collect highway operation cost from all users, if electric energy replaces carbon measured by the gallon. Fees might be based on weight. What are some other alternatives?


Some highway design factoids:

Thickness of freeway pavement is proportional to truck traffic load. Trucks break down highways, cars don't. (as a general design principle).

And width of a freeway - number of lanes - is designed for traffic volume anticipated.

Mass transit - this one is a surprise - is often cheaper, even if heavily subsidized - compared to widening a freeway in an area that is already developed. Widening freeway right of way via eminent domain is controversial, extremely costly, and extremely disruptive to the economy of demolished urban corridors. Rail may seem absurdly expensive but it is still cheaper than adding capacity to an urban freeway. And - taxing the general public to pay for rail is an indirect subsidy to motorists who don't see so many competing cars on the road. (because so many people are on the train instead).

A clear example of rail preferable to widening is BART - the subway that crosses under San Francisco Bay. It's heavily subsidized, fares don't recover operating cost, but it is still a cheaper alternative than building another Bay Bridge to get over to San Francisco.

One more piece of trivia: I don't know if this is true nationwide but it's highly relevant to California where the population grows substantially every year: There are always developers proposing new development beyond the perimeter of urban areas and they all want a freeway to make the land that they bought cheap, out in the boondocks, suddenly accessible to downtown where the jobs are. As you might guess, these guys lobbying for where the highway improvement dollars will be spent next is a major force determining route planning.

And an underlying design principle: it seems to be human nature to want a commute of about 20 minutes. New freeways promote new subdivisions at the new 20 minute perimeter around urban areas. Then 20 years later the freeway is clogged with traffic and there is pressure from the public to widen the freeway .....

 

[4570Man]

You can tax polution aka carbon tax. ICE polutes about 5 times more than electric if charged from coal or NG. Electric polutes near zero if chharged from wind, water or solar.

You're missing the point. Red diesel supposedly isn't taxed and is for off road use. There's a stiff fine if you get caught running it on the road.

 

[Egon]

Each vehicle may end up having a transceiver or some such which records the roads travelled, miles travelled etc. And you get the bill by mail.