To bond or not to bond neutral and ground in new electric service panel?

[grsthegreat]

Thank you! That describes what I see. So I don't have an immediate problem, but do have a system that is grossly out of conformance with modern specs.

Not only do I have that obsolete layout, worse is everything at both panels is Federal Electric - a comiii9pany now out of business because their stuff caused fires. I'm careful to never load any circuit to near breaker capacity. Thankfully this isn't our primary residence, we spend most of our time now at the ranch but have a house in town.

Photo: Worst example of how obsolete (and amateurish) the farmhouse wiring is, under the house in an area made inaccessible by a later remodel. I hope the wiring in the walls isn't like this.

i see old knob and tube wiring. Unless there was rewiring done in the past, its in the attic and walls also. Zinsco ie federal pacific... old motto. Our breakers never trip

 

[California]

Oops, yes Federal Pacific (Zinsco) not Federal Electric. I went back and edited that prior post. Thanks!

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Uniquely enough you can still buy breakers for both Zinsco and FP brands. Off shore knockoffs. I wonder if they have made them safe?The old original Zinscos had a feature of the buss contacts on the back could be changed from Buss A to Buss B. Purpose was for balancing loads between busses from my recollection. They were very popular when they came on the market.

There I go dating myself again.

Ron

 

[Cord]

I don't see a ground wire from the house out to the barn sub-panel. Just two hot one neutral for 100 amp 240 service. Does that change anything?

I know the barn was wired by amateurs some 55 years ago, and I think electricity was added to the existing house in the 1920's. An outlet tester at some locations shows combinations of lights that aren't on the list of good/bad responses.

I had to remedy something that made the chrome-plated kitchen percolator tingle when touched. That could have been deadly if someone added a longer cord and filled it at the faucet while plugged in. I suspect electricity bleeding to ground somewhere was the cause of major pipe corrosion, galvanic action, that seems to have ended after I got a few things wired like they should be.

This farmhouse is out in the country, never had a building inspector sign off anything. Dad's advice was just bulldoze the place when he was gone, too much was beyond repair. Now I'm getting old and telling the same thing to my kids. It's a cute little farmhouse (and outbuildings) but everything needs attention continually to stay functional.

Per modern code there should have been a ground (4 wire), however this only came into existence in the last couple of years. The system will work as a 3 wire and these systems have been installed since electrification. Just make sure you drive two ground rods at the barn sub-panel and then bond that panel as it's now functioning as a service entry (when it's really a sub-panel).

My 1860's farm house got electrified in the 20's as well. Actually found the electricians signature up in the attic! This old knob and tube stuff is pretty dangerous but so long as you don't touch it, it'll continue to work. As the spaces get remodeled, do the job right and open the walls up so it can be rewired. Before long everything will be brought up. Don't worry about it not being to current code. Codes always change and what's legal today will be inconceivable tomorrow.

 

[Cord]

Thank you! That describes what I see. So I don't have an immediate problem, but do have a system that is grossly out of conformance with modern specs.

Not only do I have that obsolete layout, worse is everything at both panels is Federal Pacific- a company now out of business because their stuff caused fires. I'm careful to never load any circuit to near breaker capacity. Thankfully this isn't our primary residence, we spend most of our time now at the ranch but have a house in town.

Photo: Worst example of how obsolete (and amateurish) the farmhouse wiring is, under the house in an area made inaccessible by a later remodel. I hope the wiring in the walls isn't like this.

I promise, the wiring inside the walls is exactly the same. Actually, that's not an amateurish installation at all. The electrician that installed the wiring was probably quite proud of his work and the owners were happy with the product. Sometimes you have to put these things into perspective. Although "dangerous" by today's standards, that wiring was quite a bit safer than a oil lantern. It's just the standards have changed and that system is now obsolete.

The biggest problem with K&T is that the wire insulation gets brittle. You try flexing the wire at all and the insulation will crack and fall off. You end up chasing the problem further and further back. Look at the bare wire at the socket base for an example. Until you are prepared to replace the wire, I'd recommend not touching it.

 

[California]

I found another photo re my farmhouse wiring, that I posted on here several years ago.

Gardner Bender didn't anticipate this combination. All three lights!

 

[MossRoad]

Reminds me of my old Mastermind game...

 

[JPRambo]

I found another photo re my farmhouse wiring, that I posted on here several years ago.
Gardner Bender didn't anticipate this combination. All three lights!


In recent past I found that situation in a mobile home. And the remedy was a repairing a loose neutral in an outlet further down the circuit .

 

[JerryK]

Loose neutrals can be a real problem. If it is from the transformer to your house, you can get unbalanced voltages. The 110 leg that has the most load will go lower and the other voltage will rise. Burns out all types of stuff in the house. Ballasts, garage door opener transformers, microwaves, etc...

 

[California]

Thanks! All three lights on the tester is the sign of a loose neutral. That is the information I need to start looking for issues.