?? About octane for mowers and chain saw

[AxleHub]

Greetings MossRoad,

You wrote "I guess the reason I haven't had fuel related issues in anything in 30+ years of using nothing but E10 fuel is because I've followed good practices from the manufacturers, used sealed gas cans, only mix a gallon of 2-stroke fuel at a time, and rotate out my stored fuel a couple times per year."

In other wordsyou adapt your entire method just to babysit all of E10's problems. I don't see how that is a logical method. I can spend 20 cents a gallon more to purchase E0 87 octane instead of saving that 20 cents per gallon to use E10.

What do I get for paying 20 cents a gallon more? In my pickup using 87 octane e0 I get 2 miles to the gallon more in highway driving plus I don't get any knocking. With e10 I get 2 mpg less and some knocking or power stall in town and that happens with completely fresh fuel. I sure don't by "sealed container gas". That's several dollars a can more.
I used to have starting problems with small engine especially in winter using e10 and changed nothing but going to 87 e0 and I have none since (note I said changed nothing else like storage method etc.).

I don't need to adjust carburetors anymore because the small engines are getting consistent e0.

My point is this, you are adjusting your use style to fit the weaknesses that e10 creates.

You mentioned several links where manufacturers indicate using e10 89 octane. Would you be surprised that those same engines run equal or better on 87 octane e0 ? They will because e10 is a power robbing fuel and to run properly those engines were designed for e0 87 octane and then "adapted" to 89 octane e10 because manufacturers instructions had to adapt to fuel pump availability - not desired availability.

In addition, numerous popular autos specifically require e10 and not e12 because they can't require e0 (at least not in the U. S.).

Finally, to address the environment. Ethanol fuels create numerous environmental issues. If my truck gets 20 mpg on the highway with e10 or gets 22 mpg on the highway with e0, the environment "wins" with the e0 use. In addition, it is well known in many corn growing states that ethanol requires huge trucking requirements for farmers to deliver bulky product to the plants. In addition to substantial fuel consumption to do that, there is air pollution from the plants (smell as well as contaminants), intense road wear (as many articles can attest), and the farmers fields do not get nutrients tilled back into the soils.

Jmho

 

[4570Man]

Yep. I guess I am fortunate in that I use it up faster than it can get contaminated... but on that note, as I've mentioned adnauseum, I buy gas in three 6-gallon cans. Those last me several months, depending on activity. I fill them 3-4 times per year. My current tractor is gas. 25HP Kohler. It burns about 50-75 gallons per year depending on activity. Push mower, weed eater, couple small chainsaws, generator, power washer, log splitter. No issues. I had a late 70's IH2500b tractor loader that had a 4 cylinder gas engine. I'd leave it sit all winter for 6 months with the same fuel in it and never had a problem starting it in spring. I just don't understand why so many people have fuel related issues when I do not, and can only see it being
A. I am lucky and the exception to the rule.
B. Something else.....

That sticker on the pump says contains up to 10 percent ethanol not 10 percent ethanol guaranteed. Maybe your supplier doesn't have any ethanol in the fuel. And letting ethanol fuel sit 6 months in a carbureted small engine almost always gums it up. It's a huge hassle to drain everything for the winter and even then there's some ethanol fuel left. And percentage based I save WAY more money mixing E0 gas 5 gallons at a time vs mixing 1 gallon of E10. Without going into any stabilizer cost or increased energy per gallon. The 2.5 gallon mix bottles cost nearly the same as a 1 gallon bottle. I know I probably could use a quart or bigger bottle of outbound oil, but it's not as easy to deal with.

 

[MossRoad]

Greetings MossRoad,

You wrote "I guess the reason I haven't had fuel related issues in anything in 30+ years of using nothing but E10 fuel is because I've followed good practices from the manufacturers, used sealed gas cans, only mix a gallon of 2-stroke fuel at a time, and rotate out my stored fuel a couple times per year."

In other wordsyou adapt your entire method just to babysit all of E10's problems. ....

What adaptation am I actually doing there?

 

[MossRoad]

That sticker on the pump says contains up to 10 percent ethanol not 10 percent ethanol guaranteed. Maybe your supplier doesn't have any ethanol in the fuel. And letting ethanol fuel sit 6 months in a carbureted small engine almost always gums it up. It's a huge hassle to drain everything for the winter and even then there's some ethanol fuel left. And percentage based I save WAY more money mixing E0 gas 5 gallons at a time vs mixing 1 gallon of E10. Without going into any stabilizer cost or increased energy per gallon. The 2.5 gallon mix bottles cost nearly the same as a 1 gallon bottle. I know I probably could use a quart or bigger bottle of outbound oil, but it's not as easy to deal with.

I always find other people's methods interesting.

Here's my cost per gallon of two-stroke mix:

A gallon of 2-cycle oil is $13.34 at Walmart.

That gallon of 2-cycle oil will make about 49 gallons of mix.

I can buy 49 gallons of E10 for $2.34 today.
South Bend Gas Prices in Indiana - GasBuddy.com

So that's $114.66

$114.66 + $13.34 = $128.00.

$128/49 gallons = $2.61 per gallon of 50:1 mix (at today's prices).

How much is your method costing you per gallon?

As I mentioned, I usually only mix 1 gallon at a time for a few reasons.

1. I keep my mixed fuel in a 2 gallon can. It has a nice long spout, and is very easy to pour into the chainsaws and weed eater when they are on the ground. It's only about half full, and gives me plenty of tipping angle before it starts pouring out, so I don't have spilling issues.

2. I mix in a 1 gallon can. It's easy to pour in my 2.6 ounces and then add a gallon of gas. Not much to measure there. Just fill it to the line on the side of the can. Give it a few shakes, and pour it into my 2 gallon usage can.

3. When I start getting low in my 2 gallon can, I mix 1 gallon in my 1 gallon can, and add it to the remainder of the 2 gallon can. By mixing in the 1 gallon can, there's no measuring. If I tried that in the remnants of the 2 gallon can, I'd be cussing as to how to measure out 1 gallon into a partially filled container.

4. On the few days per year (about 4) that I am cutting my firewood for the year (about 6 cords), and I think I'll use more than 1 gallon, I'll make 2 gallons. I've never used 2 complete gallons of mix in one day.

Anyhow, that's how much it costs me per gallon and that's how I mix it with little fuss, and why I do it a gallon at a time.

 

[mykleh]

one thing I got out of that is what a rip off the pre-mix is.. never did the math just always mix at home and figured it was a pricey convenience....

 

[Jstpssng]

A common theme from the manufacturers is using fresh fuel. Most say store it for no more than 1 - 2 months, even with stabilizers.
Fresh gas is nearly clear. Stale gas is amber colored and that's when it varnishes and clogs carbs.

The warranty on the Echo chainsaw I bought about 10 years ago said "Warranty void if ethanol gas is used." When E10 was mandated, fuel economy in my trucks dropped 10%.

 

[LD1]

Sure wish I could get E0 at a mere 20 cent markup.

Around here, buck a gallon more.

Worth it for the saws and small stuff.

Not worth paying 33% more in the autos of a 5-10% gain on economy

 

[Jstpssng]

A common theme from the manufacturers is using fresh fuel. Most say store it for no more than 1 - 2 months, even with stabilizers.
Fresh gas is nearly clear. Stale gas is amber colored and that's when it varnishes and clogs carbs.

Sure wish I could get E0 at a mere 20 cent markup.

Around here, buck a gallon more.

Worth it for the saws and small stuff.

Not worth paying 33% more in the autos of a 5-10% gain on economy

Agreed. The real reason for E-10 is cleaner air, which I am not against; as long as I can get the good stuff for my small and occasional use engines.
I run regular gas in my snowsled until the last tank of the year; and do the same for my ATV. They also are my storage tanks for immediate use... like today, when my pickup was low and I siphoned from the sled to the Ford. It's 18 miles to the nearest gas station, and my Ranger hadn't left town since last December.

 

[buickanddeere]

Too low octane will ruin the engine $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. A little extra octane for insurance is low cost peace of mind.

 

[MossRoad]

That sticker on the pump says contains up to 10 percent ethanol not 10 percent ethanol guaranteed. Maybe your supplier doesn't have any ethanol in the fuel....

That could very well be, but I doubt it. While gasoline companies hate ethanol, they have no way to raise octane that is less expensive. They are making money with ethanol as an octane booster. They'd make more money if they could eliminate ethanol and use petroleum based octane boosters, but they'd make that money off of having to charge consumers more per gallon. The first gasoline company that tries that, will be price under-cut by the gasoline companies that use ethanol. So even if they repeal the law that requires gasoline companies to use ethanol, the gasoline companies won't stop using it because it's cheaper than the alternatives. If they ever come up with a cheaper way to produce and use petroleum based octane boosters that will compete with corn alcohol, then ethanol will go POOF and be gone. Until that day comes, we're stuck with ethanol as an octane booster.