Buying Advice Looking at first time tractor

[Beyondfubar]

Hey all first post I think, been here a few months though.

I got 5 acres of some rough Texas hill country, top 2 are extremely flat and very roughly landscaped, bottom ~3 acres drop about 20 feet then level out nicely but is full of fist sized rocks with some good dirt where I don't have bedrock coming right up to the surface. Have been wanting to bring in enough dirt to make it grass friendly but possibly also get one of those buckets that hauls rock but leaves dirt.

I've got other plans as well, possibly digging a irrigation system for the lawn (backhoes are rather expensive as it turns out, jury is definitely out on that one) maybe a sewer line to my septic from the shop, dig out the driveway to form concrete, yank out a fence or two, build a new one.

Been to a green and orange dealer and they've told me roughly the same thing: "Here is our 25 horse tractor, please don't attempt to lawn mow with it" yeah I originally thought one tool for all jobs, I'm past that, sorta.

Then I noticed that the Ls guys were cheaper, had a decent fan base and out of the box seem to out lift the direct competition! For the same price as a L2501 I could get a gently used 50 horse or a new 40 horse LS. The dealer is a bit further away (still acceptable though) so I haven't visited yet. So I guess my question to you veterans of the tractor world is this: could I notice the difference in a 40 horse enough to make the DPF stuff worth it, or is 25 horse just fine for what I'm thinking of doing? I may start playing with bricks in adding buildings so the XR4140 looks to be able to fork a pallet of them with intense ballasting of the butt. Again first tractor though so probably work my way up to stuff like that.

Edit: Thanks for any advice btw. I assume the dealers are not as impartial as they seem and everyone else seems to be somewhat brand loyal (i.e. family knife fights between orange and green seem reasonable. Ha!)

 

[CMV]

If a primary use is a rock bucket, you need some stout FEL specs. Digging rocks is not a light duty application. I thought my FEL was really TOUGH..until I put a 72" rock bucket with teeth on it. It struggles...admittedly it's a full blown skid steer rock bucket...but even if it were 2/3 the size, would take a lot to really use it well.

 

[jeff9366]

If a primary use is a rock bucket, you need some stout FEL specs. Digging rocks is not a light duty application.

If you skip the rock work, a tractor weighing 2,700+ pounds bare, with just ender 25-horsepower to avoid Tier IV emission controls, should be ample for five hilly acres.

Even a tractor with 50-horsepower, weighing 4,000 pounds bare, is too light for rock work. You would be better served by an excavator or a tracked skid steer equipped with a rock hammer.

I've got other plans as well, possibly digging a irrigation system for the lawn, maybe a sewer line to my septic from the shop, dig out the driveway to form concrete.

Been to dealers and they told me roughly the same thing: "Here is our 25 horse tractor, please don't attempt to lawn mow with it" I originally thought one tool for all jobs.

Many here would use a $400 Subsoiler to loosen "soil" then scoop out spoil with a narrow trenching shovel. Subsoiler would also loosen up potential driveway site so spoil could be scooped out with FEL bucket, preferably with a Tooth Bar attached.
VIDEO: tractor subsoiler trenching - YouTube
tractor piranha bar - YouTube

Most of the 2,700 pound, sub-25 horsepower tractors do not have mid-PTOs available, therefore you cannot operate a MMM(mid mount mower). No reason you cannot pull a Three Point Hitch mounted Finish Mower.
VIDEO: tractor finish mower - YouTube

There is nothing wrong with LS tractors.

 

[Beyondfubar]

Sorry to mislead here my own inexperience is showing. I'm talking dig in the dirt and separate out the little fist sized rocks. I have a feeling the dirt may only be a few feet deep but I have use for both the rocks and dirt but not when they're combined. Probably have 2 acres of that stuff. Literally breaking bedrock or lifting boulders is probably not on the list, been warned to hire out for that. May rent a jackhammer to lower some bed rock in *very* small areas.

 

[Beyondfubar]

If you skip the rock work, a tractor weighing 2,700+ pounds bare, with just ender 25-horsepower to avoid Tier IV emission controls, should be ample for five hilly acres.

Even a tractor with 50-horsepower, weighing 4,000 pounds bare is too light for rock work. You would be better served by an excavator or a tracked skid steer equipped with a rock hammer.



Many here would use a $400 Subsoiler to loosen "soil" then scoop out spoil with a narrow trenching shovel. Subsoiler would also loosen up potential driveway site so spoil could be scooped out with FEL bucket, preferably with a Tooth Bar attached.
VIDEO: tractor subsoiler trenching - YouTube
tractor piranha bar - YouTube

Most of the 2,700 pound, sub-25 horsepower tractors do not have mid-PTOs available, therefore you cannot operate a MMM(mid mount mower). No reason you cannot pull a Three Point Hitch mounted Finish Mower.
VIDEO: tractor finish mower - YouTube

There is nothing wrong with LS tractors.

I knew there must be an attachment that did what I was looking for, and I think that subsoiler is exactly was I was thinking. Yeah it's beginning to look like I may have to break down and just get a small ride on for the wife for the top front and back yard, the bottom will likely be the kind of yard that is "Pretty from a distance" but will feed my goats and future cow(s). On a side note I really do not want to beat the **** out of the **** out of this poor little tractor so if there is a pull attachment that sorts rocks out and carries them to a place where I can pile them up that would be be awesome. I have to figure pulling is easier on them then FEL-ing.

 

[majorwager]

Subsoiler is fine for very shallow depths of approx 12 inches, If you are in rockey soil w/ a small tractor you will just spin the tires, all 4 of them.
Much better solution is to rent chain trencher. Subsoilers are best used to bury wire/cable for dog fence or phone/cable TV. Occasional small lawn sprinkler piping as well.

You will be frustrated trying to bury a 4 inch sewer pipe. Even a pressurized 2 inch sewer pipe which won't require a pitch, is best used in conjunction w/ a trencher.

Some members who live in warm climates where frost protection is of no concern, and their soils are very sandy, do NOT have experience w/ clay and Rocky Soils. Frost unlikely Texas concern but difficult ground requires experience.

 

[jeff9366]

Purchase an old car hood at a junkyard. Chain hood to the tractor. Use hood as a sled for your rocks.


Here are ROCK SIFTER threads from the T-B-N ARCHIVE: rock sifter site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

 

[Snowman87]

One of my reasons for going LS was bang for the buck. Shopping in the same price range a 40-50 hp LS tractor will definitely have a much greater lift capacity than the L2501. Having more hp and sheer equipment weight will definitely help you take larger buckets of dirt at a time.

No issues with DPF for me, regens every 50 hours as noted.

 

[Beyondfubar]

Thank you all for the great advice. Only really considered the larger tractors due to them suddenly being inside the wife mandated price range, besides not knowing if 15 or so more horse power brought me up to where I'd need to be. Most of the front yard is dirt to about 2 feet, clearly brought in so that there would be a yard. Probably only going to work that with the subsoiler, though it's a mess currently (previous owner believed if one aerobic septic sprinkler was needed then 5 was better) my list of things I want to do with this tractor grows everyday though. It's good to have a bit of a sanity check on what is good for the tractor and what just won't work.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

What do you plan to do with the bottom 3 acres? Just make it look nicer? A pic would help a lot.

 

[Beyondfubar]

I'll get down there and get a pic tomorrow, I've got about 4 trees to pull pretty small <5 inch diameter. Then on the fence for step it out in levels till its flat for just slop it off. Then I've got a small forest strip I'll probably put a decorative wall on so it frames it all in. I'm under no illusions over dirt cost, even if I spend 20k on a tractor I'm gonna spend more on dirt unless I spend 5 years hauling and unloading with my small truck. Currently it's a rocky hillside, I'd prefer a nice sloped lawn-pasture.

 

[Beyondfubar]

I should also add I got on a LS today XG3032 I believe it was. You just can't beat the price on these guys! There was something I felt was odd though: the ground clearance seemed very off. The axles and the underside components were held up and I think I saw pilot shafts for the front wheel drive, yet there was an underbody frame piece that even on the 3032 was only one finger tip to palm base above the ground! I asked the dealer about it and he told me that was part of the frame. Is that normal? I like everything else about these tractors, the price, capabilities, feel are all great! **** the wife loves he color, but I worry the clearance is my gotcha on this. Anyone have any insight on this? I figure with the rough boulders I have to climb over I'd need that much clearance while weighed down and that's with zero margin for error. Again thank you all for your advice, you're a great community, especially Jeff! I should have seen those things you linked, I like the rock slide idea, and have committed to a c-clamp spade as well, might be able to relocate the 30 plus (small) fruit trees into a neat set of rows in the back.

 

[CMV]

Wasn't a backhoe subframe was it?

 

[prof fate]

having had a 17hp kubota and moved to a 35hp kioti I can tell you there is a WORLD of difference when you double the HP/weight.

HP makes things go 'quicker' and you may need if for 'real' farm work (plowing big acres, haying, etc). Hence these 25-60 hp tractors are called 'utility' tractors. Odd jobs sorta thing.

Bigger costs more to buy, to run, BUT can handle bigger implements (which also cost mroe) but can get the work done faster, easier and maybe safer (on hills, less tendency to overload them).

For mowing you can get a rear mower for any of them, or for 3k ish get a new zero turn (the cost of a deck on a kubota is 3kish). Taking a mid deck on/off sucks.

As for DPF - if there's no DEF fluid then it should be a non-issue -just keep revs above 1800 to keep the exhaust hot and particulates low and go for it. It's lots of low rpm, start/stop, idling that causes the filters to 'get used' more and therefore regen more.

I went with 35hp over 25 hp (same frame on the kioti) was heavier duty/capable loader and the HP to run a 1' bigger brush hog (main task). I may hay in the future and 30 hp pto can do it -it's at the low end but i'm gonna hay 10 acres, not 100. Also, working a bigger tractor less hard should help it last longer.

 

[Beyondfubar]

@CMV I don't believe so. I've seen some other pictures on here of this now, appears to be a design choice. Maybe not a big deal, but when I'm not sure how much any tractor flexes under load, maybe a non-issue but after listening to a salesman talk about not using a backhoe and mid mower (I won't but it's my only experience) I'm officially worried.

@prof Given the amount of dirt I want to move it's tempting to go up a size until I hit the budget, but once I'm in maintenance mode it'll just be me and the brush hog on a hill so I'm not too sure what's 'too much' ha!

 

[prof fate]

kioti brags about the most ground clearance...what for I wonder..then I start using the bucket and driving over piles of dirt and kinda get it.

mtce..most have a 50 hour first service (filters and oil change) and then on kioti 100 hours on oil, 200 I think on hydraulics. My old kubota was 50 on oil and 300 on hydraulics/trans.

If you break it..well, you broke it no matter the size.

HP matters for big implements (I can do 5/6ft anything - tiller, etc). 16' batwing? nope. I an do a small round baler or square baler - but not pulling a hay wagon behind it al llike a train. And up hill...things will slow down.

I can mow nearly double the land per hour as I did with the kubota and 4' hog (vs 6' hog). HST is a factor in that. On the bigger hills I need low range to get up them. A 45 hp would be fine in mid range i'm sure. Doubt the kubota could have done it at all.

So somewhere is the balance - enough to do it but not overbuying.

This is my first loader - desire/need to move manure (any will do that..smaller is slower is all) and move/stack round bales and maybe big square bales - now lifting capacity comes into the equation.

I'd have gone 40hp but it was 2500 more..same frame/loader..so not worth it. (same engine..so maybe just bigger injectors?? I can change those...)

 

[Beyondfubar]

At this phase I'm almost considering what others have gone around and around about which is comparing dollars to dollars rather than hp to hp. There definitely seems to be a call for that on some aspects.

below I've attached some images of my back yard work space. Probably will be difficult to get a good gauge of the hill but really highlights my rock issue. There are a few places where the rocks do not appear to be too overly large, but I'm going to peg them for "Rockbergs" and assume they're the top of my hill I live on, or at least the size of my house. It's not going to stop me from trying *very gently* to flip them out since I am actually of the opinion that they're what was removed from my foundation pad's area but were either too big/expensive to haul off or simply easier to roll down the hill a bit. There are other sections of the lot that it is very clear that it is bedrock, flat worn rock that pops up from time to time in the dirt, gonna bury those if I can. The overarching goal will be to turn that rocky Texas hill country slope into something that will grow grass reliably with little watering and be at least somewhat nice to look at. A lot of those stunted cedar trees will have to go as well, which is fine I like trees but most of them at male and create pollen that just dusts everything, I'm not allergic to pollen but I am allergic to things on my property that are troublesome!




edit: double post of the pictures there opps. Also don't be fooled by the fish bowl effect there, that hillside is rather long.

 

[DK35vince]

For mowing you can get a rear mower for any of them, or for 3k ish get a new zero turn (the cost of a deck on a kubota is 3kish).

You might get a light duty low end residential zero turn for $3000.
My first zero turn was closer to 6K and my current zero turn was just under 12K.

 

[Beyondfubar]

Probably go low end normal ride on mower for the 'lawns' the back (when done) would just be too much, but not sure how good I can get and keep the back yard, **** the weeds down there have died in our "Not a drought" conditions.

edit: trying to figure out why 'even' was starred out. Still not sure.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

That's pretty rocky but at least most are fairly medium-sized.

So your goal is a lawn on the open rock-strewn area. My soil is clay full of rocks of every size from boulder to tiny. When I had the lower ravine reshaped (by a professional with an excavator) and ponds dug and flatter areas created around them, I wanted to plant grass. Grass of course will not grow if there's a rock within a few inches of the surface. I set up a box blade with the teeth down to the depth I wanted (about 3") and the blade part just at surface level. Made many passes. The teeth popped out all the rocks underneath, and the blade gathered them up, but very little dirt. (I tossed the rocks into the new creek/ponds). Quite a few passes later it was done. The top 3" was relatively free of rocks. Put down grass seed and it's grown in very well, and now I just mow it.