Glyphosate - related to bee decline

[Big Barn]

I went to bio degradeable plastic mulch covers for weeds. Nothing else could keep them down unless we were out there every day weeding. You poke holes in it and plant. If you are real good you'll have a drip hose under there as well! But you don't need it. We grow everything - from potatoes to radishes, beets, pumpkin. onions. - No chemicals. For two years we've put potatoes under raised row covers to keep out the potato bugs. The bugs will land on the cover looking for a way in!

Our organic gardening!-- Just up the road they are harvesting potatoes. Green fields to dead brown foliage in two days once sprayed. Then the equipment comes into dig - truckloads head for the storage barns. I keep thinking - glyphosate special potatoes. In the past they would wait until after the first frost to harvest or the potatoes finished their natural cycle and died on their own.

You are incorrect. Glyphosate is not used for top killing potatoes.

Top killers used allow the potato skins to “set” while still allowing the tuber to grow thus gaining weight. Potatoes immediately stop growing (and gaining weight) when hit with a killing frost.

 

[fishheadbob]

I didn't realize you were growing Christmas trees; not row crops. Some of the methods may still work. I was intrigued by the "flaming" method. Seems like that might have some promise. Sometimes we are too "all or nothing"; perhaps a goal of *reducing* chemical usage is more attainable? I don't know if grass is okay, or if you need the soil bare between your rows, but what about a cover crop? This method of restoring a lawn: in early spring plant annual rye (if you don't want the grass to persist) or a contractor's mix (if you want it to stay year after year); it shoots up fast and outcompetes almost any weed you care to name. Of course everything gets expensive on 15 miles of rows.

As for the home garden, that one's pretty easy. At the end of the growing season, scoop all the surface soil into a large pile along with some shredded lawn waste for composting, which obviously kills weeds and pests in the soil. You can then cover the bare garden with almost anything--newspapers, plastic sheeting, etc.--to keep it weed free if you need to. Then in late spring re-spread the topsoil. If you only use half your garden each season and let the other half lay fallow, your compost will have a whole year to "cook."

To keep weeds under control during the garden season, I don't use rows because they provide a ton of space for weeds to grow in between your veggies. I plant things in sections that are small enough for me to lean over and tend the middle (around 4x4') and I also plant the seeds much closer together than recommended on the seed pack. The result is a dense stand of veggies that shades out most of the weeds (and also requires little to no watering). In the narrow paths between each section, I dump some cheap mulch which helps hold moisture in the soil, makes for nice paths for tending the garden, puts a damper on the weeds, and any weeds that do pop up, lift out very easily.

I'm an experimental gardener. I'm always trying new methods to try to get better results with less effort. Next spring I want to try the old Indian method for low maintenance gardening: in one hole plant a corn seed, a climbing bean seed, and a squash seed. The corn stalk is for the bean to climb, and the squash shades out any weeds and keeps the soil moist.

I wonder what would happen if you planted squash in your rows. ? Squash will reseed itself every year if you leave the fruit.

I have grass rows between the trees. Keeps the mud down, just mow the grass every now and then to keep it in check. Problem is weeds are opportunistic, or nature abhors a vacuum; any bare ground that hasn't been dosed with a long lasting pre-emergent herbicide will soon have something moving into that bare ground. Most long lasting herbicides are just that; while they persist on the ground to keep invaders out, betcha they persist a lot of other places in our world too. Take a look at a big corn field next time you drive by. Not a weed in sight and the corn is 4 or 5 feet tall, too tall to get most spray rigs in, but not a weed in sight. There's a lot more than glyphosate on that ground keeping it that clean. If you read the label on herbicides somewhere in the 32 pages is a list of what chemicals are compatible for tank mixing.
Glyphosate doesn't have any residual weed killing effect. It hits the weed then translocates into the root system. After a day or two you can plant into that sprayed area with no ill effects to the new seed/plant. It's the other stuff that keeps the new guys out.
I've said elsewhere that the well intentioned folks who crab about Roundup are the same ones who complain about how expensive groceries are, but without all the (poisonous?) chemicals farmers dump onto their crops the cost of food would be astronomical.
I pay more for organic beef. I used to belong to a CSA farm that provided my veggies and a little fruit, I grow my own again. Those small guys provide a tiny fraction of the food in our system and they are close to full capacity; they cannot come close to providing the country's food supply, let alone the world's. I don't think many of us are willing to give up our good paying, and yes soft, jobs and go back to 40 acres of backbreaking labor. What we need is newer products developed, but that really carries a hefty price tag. I can buy a product in lieu of glyphosate that does a better longer lasting job of weed control. What $50 dollars of glyphosate can do, $850 of the new product can do better. Of course the manufacturer claims it is safe. It is also going to jack the cost of my trees up higher so people will go to artificials or the cheaper sprayed trees.
Ain't no easy answers.

 

[kenmac]

I have no idea what they use. But the power company here sprays their ROW's .The stuff they use will kill trees.
I have no idea if power companies throughout the country spray their ROW's, But they do here.

I would love to get my hands on some of the stuff they're using !

 

[Jstpssng]

On right of ways we used a mix of Tordon (Picloram) and Garlon, (trycopyr)plus a few surfactants. That was over 30 years ago and may have changed. When cutting one person would be stump treating with Tordon RTU while the rest of the crew ran chainsaws.
The very first spray job I ever worked on, they needed my license to get the permit; as nobody else in the company was licensed in Maine.

 

[fishheadbob]

On right of ways we used a mix of Tordon (Picloram) and Garlon, (trycopyr)plus a few surfactants. That was over 30 years ago and may have changed. When cutting one person would be stump treating with Tordon RTU while the rest of the crew ran chainsaws.
The very first spray job I ever worked on, they needed my license to get the permit; as nobody else in the company was licensed in Maine.

Still what they use.

 

[tcreeley]

You are incorrect. Glyphosate is not used for top killing potatoes.

Top killers used allow the potato skins to 都et while still allowing the tuber to grow thus gaining weight. Potatoes immediately stop growing (and gaining weight) when hit with a killing frost.

What top killer do they use? It does the job in two days. Usually within a week the potatoes are being harvested. - It is what got me growing my own chemical free potatoes.



I have plenty of space for rows in the garden and a 5 ft rototiller. I leave room between my plastic bio mulch rows so I can get the tractor down and till if I want. - Two months and tilled bare dirt turns into a dense growth of grasses and weeds.
Over the summer I mow the grass and in places I've seeded with clover or millet. The bees like the clover. Toward the end I let the millet grow and it seeds out and provides food for migrating song sparrows.

I never use chemicals- and what we don't grow for food, we buy organic.
I had some of our onions and delicatta squash fried in butter and maple syrup. The squash were volunteers and grew in the horses's manure pile. They keep the pile covered in green all summer!

 

[Big Barn]

What top killer do they use? It does the job in two days. Usually within a week the potatoes are being harvested.

The time frame you mention is typical. When we grew potatoes (over 30 years ago) we used the foliage desiccant “Reglone”. Not certain what they use today.

Killing the vines accomplishes two things. It causes the potatoes’ skins to harden or “set” which reduces bruising and increases storage and shelf life. And the shrunken brittle vines enable the potato harvester to separate trash from product more efficiently.

 

[tcreeley]

This is an interesting article - Dicamba is being used now for weeds resistant to glyphosate. Sold through the Monsanto/Bayer product line.
A Drifting Weedkiller Puts Prized Trees At Risk : The Salt : NPR

 

[Big Barn]

This is an interesting article - Dicamba is being used now for weeds resistant to glyphosate. Sold through the Monsanto/Bayer product line.
A Drifting Weedkiller Puts Prized Trees At Risk : The Salt : NPR

Dicamba has been used on lawns for years. Mixed with Mecoprop and 2-4D , it was widely used as a spray herbicide and mixed in almost all “weed and feed” dry formulations. Marketed under a bunch of recognizable consumer names.

 

[LD1]

Dicamba has been used on lawns for years. Mixed with Mecoprop and 2-4D , it was widely used as a spray herbicide and mixed in almost all “weed and feed” dry formulations. Marketed under a bunch of recognizable consumer names.

Yep, Dicamba is nothing new. Its been mixed with 24d for years, but everyone always just said 24d. It is in alot of weed n feeds, or alot of the stuff marketed for "crab grass" or alot of stuff for "brush".

Also in alot of pasture type herbicides, and it is also usually one of the 3 chemicals in "trimec" of whatever brand you so choose