Need stronger brakes, what can I do?

[oliver1555]

Check the amperage draw for each magnet. It should be around 3 amps when the controller is at max. Also, check the grounds. Dexter axle recommends running a ground back to the battery on the tow vehicle. That is how all of my trailers are wired. Grounding to the frame is marginal, in my opinion. Not familiar with your brake controller. I am lucky to have bought a maxbrake several years ago. No longer available. If you ever get a chance to buy a used one, you will be amazed at how well they work!

 

[ovrszd]

Check the amperage draw for each magnet. It should be around 3 amps when the controller is at max. Also, check the grounds. Dexter axle recommends running a ground back to the battery on the tow vehicle. That is how all of my trailers are wired. Grounding to the frame is marginal, in my opinion. Not familiar with your brake controller. I am lucky to have bought a maxbrake several years ago. No longer available. If you ever get a chance to buy a used one, you will be amazed at how well they work!

Good points. One of my magnets was going bad when I did my rebuild. Was one of things that motivated me to do it. Started pricing magnets and realized I just needed to go all the way.

I also agree in regards to the ground. The system is very sensitive to a solid ground.

I can't remember the brand of my controller. It's nothing expensive. Uses a time delay. I like it. Keeps from shocking the brakes into a slide when applied.

My previous controller used a pendilum (sp). I hated it.

Will also add. In my opinion my trailer brakes are working properly when they stop the trailer. All the truck has to do is stop itself. Too soft and you can feel the trailer pushing you. Too aggressive and you can feel the trailer yank on the truck. The sweet spot during normal stops is you don't realize you have the trailer behind you.

 

[TMGT]

What is the max voltage displayed on the controller when manually applying them? (maxed out).

The controller should be close to battery voltage which will be about 13-14.5v with the vehicle running. If it's only showing 12v with the vehicle running you may have a problem with your wiring.

 

[AWSubie]

Blane,
I have a very similar set up to yours only with a lighter truck (2011 Silverado) and I feel very comfortable with the amount of breaking that I have. I have a Prodigy P3 (Tekonsha) brake controller. Is your brake controller mounted correctly? Is it level? It’s a proportional brake controller and uses an accelerometer and it must be level to work correctly. Also before you start out on the road, do set your power first (voltage) and then your boost?

 

[PEJ5]

Thanks for the replies.
Yes, brakes on both axles.
I thought when setting the boost on the controller the brakes start at a higher pressure not so much that they are stronger. In other words when I manually slide the knob to ?2 it doesn稚 matter if the boost is on or not. Is this not correct?
The trailer has all the factory wiring and so does the truck (controller to battery) so shouldn稚 it be good? The trailer is stored under cover so it is in great shape. When empty I can skid the brakes on asphalt at about 4. I hope I don稚 have to go through what 4570man has trying to figure this out.

Thanks again,
Blane

Sorry. This got long.

If you can lock all four wheels empty then the brake controller, wiring, and electric brakes are operational. A good thing. The brake controller works by providing a higher voltage to the brake magnets during heavy braking. Yes, the boost on the Prodigy determines the minimum/starting voltage. The contoller works on inertia so standing on the vehicle brakes will cause the electric brake controller to apply more voltage than when you just touch the vehicle brakes.

The factory wiring and length is the issue IMHO. I estimate that you could be losing 25% of your trailer braking power. Without getting too electical...

Each brake likely draws 5 amps at full braking so that is 20 amps on the brake wire/ground on a dual axle trailer. The higher the current (amps), the greater the voltage loss in the wiring and the lower the voltage getting to the brakes. Not good! The problem is that the length of the wire from the battery, through the controller, to the trailer axles is maybe 35feet+ on a big truck and long trailer.

If you have a multimeter you can do a test to confirm the issue. With the truck running and trailer connected, have someone fully squeeze the controller manual trigger as you measure the voltage at various spots. You may find 16 volts at the battery, 14v at the hitch connector and 12v at the electric brakes. 25% loss!

I estimate that icreasing the gage of the wiring to 8AWG (on both the positive and ground) will reduce your loss to 5% . That may not be practical so 10gage =8% loss. Not bad.

Run heavy wire directly from the battery post, through a auto resetting 30amp relay to the the controller input. Run extension cord type wiring from the brake controller back to the 7 pin connector. Two 12ga wires twisted together = one 9 gage wire. For the ground use the frame as you ground "wire" except at the hitch connector. For that run a short 8gage from the 7pin connector to you truck frame and the same on the trailer side - Big bolts, sanded frame and then paint over. Take the ground wires from your electric brakes to good frame grounds close to the axles.

That should make a huge difference.

 

[oliver1555]

For the ground use the frame as you ground "wire" except at the hitch connector. For that run a short 8gage from the 7pin connector to you truck frame and the same on the trailer side - Big bolts, sanded frame and then paint over. Take the ground wires from your electric brakes to good frame grounds close to the axles.

As per Dexter Axle recommendations, grounds from magnets should not be connected to the frame. Rather, they should be carried on wire of sufficient gauge all the way to the tow vehicle negative post and all splices should be soldered and sealed with adhesive shrink tube. Gauge of wire depends on number of brakes and number of lights on trailer. Any connection to the frame has the potential to loosen or corrode, thereby causing a loss of brake efficiency. None of my grounds, (brakes as well as lights) on my trailers rely on the frame as the "ground wire." Nothing worse than lights that blink and inconsistent braking because of poor grounds.

Here is a good resource for troubleshooting electric brakes:
Brakes

 

[ovrszd]

As per Dexter Axle recommendations, grounds from magnets should not be connected to the frame. Rather, they should be carried on wire of sufficient gauge all the way to the tow vehicle negative post and all splices should be soldered and sealed with adhesive shrink tube. Gauge of wire depends on number of brakes and number of lights on trailer. Any connection to the frame has the potential to loosen or corrode, thereby causing a loss of brake efficiency. None of my grounds, (brakes as well as lights) on my trailers rely on the frame as the "ground wire." Nothing worse than lights that blink and inconsistent braking because of poor grounds.

Here is a good resource for troubleshooting electric brakes:
Brakes

Good stuff.

 

[PEJ5]

As per Dexter Axle recommendations, grounds from magnets should not be connected to the frame. Rather, they should be carried on wire of sufficient gauge all the way to the tow vehicle negative post and all splices should be soldered and sealed with adhesive shrink tube. Gauge of wire depends on number of brakes and number of lights on trailer. Any connection to the frame has the potential to loosen or corrode, thereby causing a loss of brake efficiency. None of my grounds, (brakes as well as lights) on my trailers rely on the frame as the "ground wire." Nothing worse than lights that blink and inconsistent braking because of poor grounds.

Here is a good resource for troubleshooting electric brakes:
Brakes

The dedicated ground sounds like a good plan. I find that my trailers (utility and Popup) require semi regular wiring and lighting attention no matter what. I have vastly improved the original wiring as I work on some issues.

Good luck to OP on improving the stopping power. Nothing is more concerning than being pushed into an intersection by your load.

Peter

 

[mikester]

I知 only hauling about 22,000 including the trailer and I am using a medium duty truck although it has hydraulic brakes. It has way more stop than a pickup and stops the load pretty good by itself but it needs some help from the trailer a to be legal and b for a bad situation. I never mentioned making sudden stops. I can稚 control every idiot on the road but I hardly ever make sudden stops.

From your first post

When I have to make a sudden reduction in speed it can be a harrowing experience because the truck and trailer just do not slow down like I think they should.

Statements like that remind me of those guys I regularly see with 3/4 ton pickups hauling overloaded 24 foot trailers texting on their cell phones and tailgating cars. I see idiot commercial truckers doing the same thing and they have better potential stopping power than pickups pulling trailers with electric brakes.

The longer your wire runs get the less effective they are. Every connection is a weak point in terms of added line resistance too. Every crimp connection junction point corrodes in time and bad/poor crimps are weak points I.e. butt and spade connections. Soldering stranded wires will cause problems. Avoid aluminum wiring, cheap crimp tools and cheap aluminum connectors.

PEJ5s advise is bang on.

 

[crazyal]

Most every electric brake I have seen has a crimp splice where the end of the wires from the magnet connect to the trailer wiring harness. Crimp connectors are not a good idea (at least up here). As for the ground, I weld a stainless bolt to the frame where the trailer wire harness meets the first part of the frame that's not bolted on, at each light, and each brake. That provides a great path to ground that will never corrode. Another problem I find is that where wires ground the company that built the trailer just uses a self drilling screw. It works fine when new but sooner or later rust or corrosion is going impact how well the connection is made. Anything that's connected I solder and if I need to use a ring lug for ground I only use gold plated one that I crimp then solder. You could also check the gauge of the wire. If it's 16 or smaller you could start to see a voltage drop when under full braking.