Thermo King / Isuzu motors for generators

[mikester]

29 hp ya a very small pickup......

Piaggio Ape - Wikipedia

Like one of these? The engine might be too big...

 

[BrokenTrack]

We lost power 3 days ago and I am using my 27 HP Kubota on a 20 KW pto generator just fine. The tractor's engine has enough sensitivity of the governor to account for loads. About the only time I even notice it change in tone is when the water pump comes on. The lights do not even flicker, the tractor just bogs down for a split second as the pump kicks in because someone is using water, but that is it.I read about this being a problem too, but my experience does not match what people have said.

And power seems to be clean too. As I said earlier, I just throttle the tractor into the green to get the right hertz, and everything seems to handle itself, from various loads to hertz.

For my genset, I am just going to have a machine shop make the same four bolt plate that the chiller used to bolt up to, and then have them center and balance a 6 spline PTO shaft, and use that to connect the engine to the PTO generator. I will align the shaft as straight as I can of course, but there is plenty of room for vibration with two pto joints on the shaft. It will be easier doing that, then using a lovejoy coupling.

 

[BrokenTrack]

You are in better position than me PMSMechanic because you have (2) engines to toy with.

You could also take (2) of those 29 HP engines, drive (2) separate generators, then just synch them together if you get them both going. That way you could shut one down when the electrical loads are lighter, like at night and whatnot. But when you need more power, then you could fire the other up, and synch them together.

I thought it would be prohibitively expensive to get the electronics to synch the two separate forms of power, but from what I could tell, with new digital controllers now, it was like $350 to enable you to do that. Do not go by what I say, have a real electrician tell you what you need for sure, but it was not as bad as I thought price wise.

 

[pmsmechanic]

BrokenTrack - I would use a 21 spline pto shaft instead of a 540. The reason being that the splines on a 21 spline pto stub are self centering because of the shape of the spline. (The spline has a curve in it). 540 splines are just a straight cut spline which is ok for 540 rpm but it's nicer to have a self centering spline for higher speeds as there will be less chance of vibration.

Last night I was looking through the Central Georgia website and found this: 184E 21kw Double Bearing Generator Alternator Head | Central Georgia Generator, which I think I will get my customer to go for if I can't find anything in Canada. They recommend 30 diesel hp so I'm a little shy but the next smaller one is only 16.5 kva. I'd rather have more generator than I need vs a smaller one.

I really like the looks of these couplers. Martin Quadra-flex. They have a lot of leeway for misalignment and they are relatively inexpensive. Couplings - MARTIN SPROCKET & GEAR - PDF Catalogs | Technical Documentation | Brochure.

We will see what I have room for once I get everything lined up.

I've also looked at these combination welder generators. For portable farm use they would be ideal. Haven't asked about any prices yet though. Welding | Mecc Alte. Specifically this model https://www.meccalte.com/downloads/EPW5.pdf. The brochure only shows 50 Hz but the website also mentions 60 Hz from the same model.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Double post Grrrr

 

[BrokenTrack]

50 Hertz...60 Hertz...it really is not an issue because that is set by RPM. You just have to adjust the engine to it. You can do that with a decent Fluke meter.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I took a look at the Central Georgia Generator website, and it look like a decent place. I like their PTO generator sets. 20 KW for $2100 with gear boxes and everything. That is pretty decent. $190 flat shipping fee...pretty decent too. They had some nice control boxes for pretty cheap money too.

A person could set up a decent genset for very little in money.

Thanks for letting me know about them. I appreciate it!

 

[buickanddeere]

So a while ago I was given 4 Thermo King motors and 1 Isuzu. The deal was that I make one into an emergefncy generator for their farm and I could do what I wanted with the others. 1 TK motor is supposedly an overhauled long block complete with an injection pump, oil filter etc. One had never been used on the farm and was still complete as a refrigeration unit. That one I've stripped of all refrigeration components and I managed to get it running yesterday.

The last two TK's were in used on the farm as lift pumps for flood irrigation. One I can't bar over so I don't know if I'll be able to get it running and the other one turns over so we'll see.

The 5th motor is a 3 cylinder Isuzu that was also used as a lift pump. It's loose but I haven't worked it over yet.

All the motors produce around 29 hp.

1) What size of generator? There is so much conflicting advice. Any where's from 750 watts / hp to 1 kva / 2 hp. I know there is a difference between watts and kva. Some explanation on that would be good. Right now I'm looking at 15 - 19 kva. Is it better to have the generator a bit over sized for the motor so that the generator has less of a chance at being overloaded or is it better to have a smaller generator on a larger motor so that the motor would never really lug down and you would be able to generate quality electricity.

2) How many amps would be adequate? This is basically emergency power for a fairly large farm. I realize that 29 hp isn't enough to run the whole farm. If he wants more power to run everything he can buy a pto unit for the whole farm and just switch to this one for the house and shop for the evenings/night.

3) What brand of generator? Who do I deal with and who shouldn't be trusted? How much should I worry about thd and what thd should I look for. I know I need a 4 pole or more because the TK units are governed at 1800 rpm. I also need single phase and the ability to generate 240/120. I read somewhere once that Northern Tool or similar outfit at one time made a bolt on generator for these FK units. I haven't been able to find any or any information on them either. That would be the ideal solution as it seems like they bolted right up to the FK bell housing.

Any advice or experiences that you have would be appreciated. I probably haven't even asked all the right questions so if you want to go there that's ok too. I'm in no hurry to get these done (Read that I can wait for a good used generator) but it's a nice project for these Corona days.

Need to know the rpm the diesels were "rated" at 29HP. Need to know the rpm the alternators required that were bolted to the engine .
If that diesel was rated for 29HP at 2400rpm but was bolted to a six pole alternator requiring 1200rpm. Typically a 7.5Kw alternator would be considered a "Fit".

 

[pmsmechanic]

Need to know the rpm the diesels were "rated" at 29HP. Need to know the rpm the alternators required that were bolted to the engine .
If that diesel was rated for 29HP at 2400rpm but was bolted to a six pole alternator requiring 1200rpm. Typically a 7.5Kw alternator would be considered a "Fit".

Well you ask an interesting question. I have a factory Thermo King C201 service manual. In there it states that the engine puts out 27 hp at 2200 rpm. I don't know what it puts out at 1800 rpm but it's something I need to check out. I have no problems with putting a smaller generator on it. I just figure it should be sized correctly to the engine.

There is also mention of resetting the governor and injection rack for generator use vs refrigeration use. Now if someone knows where to find tool #204-431... If not I can probably make something that will work out of a protractor.

 

[buickanddeere]

At 1800 rpm a 15Kw alternator would be a fit .