Buying Advice Looking at getting a new tractor, Am I missing anything? And whats my trade worth?

[nards444]

Based on a couple of phone calls I got before I could delete the CL ad and the big smile on the guy's face that bought my tractor I'm sure I could have gotten $14K and maybe 15K for it. The Kubota was low hours and in tip top shape. The Rhino bush hog was older but heavy duty and in great shape as well. I understand and agree with dealers' overhead, labor costs, etc. I've been self employed before and experienced them myself. What I don't agree with is greed and this dealer was greedy.

I've never heard anybody factor in the income tax the poor old dealer has to pay on his profits. That's a new one on me. If they are so concerned about the income tax they will have to pay on their profit, then they should bump up my trade, thus lowering their tax liability. My dislike (I don't hate anybody) for this dealer is not misplaced at all.

As a side note, this dealership was where I originally purchased the M4900. I traded in a Massey Ferguson on the Kubota and felt like I got an OK deal. Since then the dealership has changed hands, changed names and new owners had taken over. I hear they are not doing well as the family that had it for many, many years. I think I know why.

I dont know your situation and all the facts and figures, so not making judgement on you our your situation. Just putting out there somethings that factor in. Average small business pays 20% in taxes, so taxes are a factor and its nothing to do with a poor business mentality. But by going off what you got your machine sold for 13, that was market for it unless something else happened. Dealer probably then pays his salesman another 5-10% in commission, full tank of gas, machine cleaned, mechanics do a once over possibly change fluid, cost of utilities, insurance all the business overhead factored into what each sale cost him. Break it all down in that manner, there looks to be maybe 2k or so in profit off the trade figures you gave him.

 

[kthompson]

I talked with a Ford dealer in Lugoff SC last fall. Nothing would not do but for them to talk trade. Told them upfront you will be too low. I was not driving the pickup so call my wife for the vin which was all then needed. Got that and then they said we must see it. The came back with an offer that was less than half what I sold it for. It was not the offer that upset me it was the way they played games, made me feel like the OP. If that dealership was owned by a group would have reached out to tell them what my experience there was.

One thing in a tractor dealer that is different than with cars, not aware they have near the support for trading with another dealer a used tractor that will not sell in their market. The local Kubota has some used tractors I think for over a year. Hey some new tractors site on lots for over a year also. No where the same market as with autos.

 

[nards444]

I talked with a Ford dealer in Lugoff SC last fall. Nothing would not do but for them to talk trade. Told them upfront you will be too low. I was not driving the pickup so call my wife for the vin which was all then needed. Got that and then they said we must see it. The came back with an offer that was less than half what I sold it for. It was not the offer that upset me it was the way they played games, made me feel like the OP. If that dealership was owned by a group would have reached out to tell them what my experience there was.

One thing in a tractor dealer that is different than with cars, not aware they have near the support for trading with another dealer a used tractor that will not sell in their market. The local Kubota has some used tractors I think for over a year. Hey some new tractors site on lots for over a year also. No where the same market as with autos.

I think thats more of the problem then the numbers is how dealers play numbers games. For instance how much do you want to pay per month is the first questions. Ok how do you know I dont have cash, outside financing set up etc. I know why they do it because once they know how much you want to pay or how much you do pay they lock you into a number, the other part small part is I think its a way to make sure you arent wasting time, guy comes in looking at the Platinum F250 at 899 a month but can only afford 300, why go down that rabbit hole.

Dealers also try to wrap trades and blend into the purchase, which in reality it is two separate transactions. But do understand at times they can afford more on a trade etc which effects the net price. I think dealers would probably just do better with trades at times saying hey look here is what I offer, I got overhead and need to make money on it, take it or leave it.

One thing watching these forums I think people get teed off some because they think pricing structure for say cars or tractors are what they were 20 years ago. Reality is on purchases on these things new the profit margin is very small, after factory rebates there is usually a very small percent to work with on vehicles its only like 1-3%.

 

[TBone]

I think thats more of the problem then the numbers is how dealers play numbers games. For instance how much do you want to pay per month is the first questions. Ok how do you know I dont have cash, outside financing set up etc. I know why they do it because once they know how much you want to pay or how much you do pay they lock you into a number, the other part small part is I think its a way to make sure you arent wasting time, guy comes in looking at the Platinum F250 at 899 a month but can only afford 300, why go down that rabbit hole.

Dealers also try to wrap trades and blend into the purchase, which in reality it is two separate transactions. But do understand at times they can afford more on a trade etc which effects the net price. I think dealers would probably just do better with trades at times saying hey look here is what I offer, I got overhead and need to make money on it, take it or leave it.

One thing watching these forums I think people get teed off some because they think pricing structure for say cars or tractors are what they were 20 years ago. Reality is on purchases on these things new the profit margin is very small, after factory rebates there is usually a very small percent to work with on vehicles its only like 1-3%.

In my case there wasn't any "how much do you want to pay per month". I had a firm price on the new tractor, a trade that was paid for and paid cash for the new one. The dealer suggested a trade after he gave me the price on the new one. You keep trying to find excuses for a dealer to offer a trade in value of 50% of retail with no repairs needed. You are obviously a dealer or related to one. I've been in the automotive business for a few years. I always try to get a trade for as little as possible but I have NEVER offered half of what a trade was worth. There's an old saying in the south. "I was born in the dark but it wasn't last night." My opinion of this dealer has not changed. They are GREEDY.

 

[nards444]

In my case there wasn't any "how much do you want to pay per month". I had a firm price on the new tractor, a trade that was paid for and paid cash for the new one. The dealer suggested a trade after he gave me the price on the new one. You keep trying to find excuses for a dealer to offer a trade in value of 50% of retail with no repairs needed. You are obviously a dealer or related to one. I've been in the automotive business for a few years. I always try to get a trade for as little as possible but I have NEVER offered half of what a trade was worth. There's an old saying in the south. "I was born in the dark but it wasn't last night." My opinion of this dealer has not changed. They are GREEDY.

Your not comprehending what I am saying. You don't have to like it and I am not saying you possibly didn't have a bad situation, I dont know I wasnt there. I am speaking in general. Short of cars most things on trade you are selling basically at wholesale minus to a dealer. In general 50% ish is a pretty good rule of thumb, except for cars they are much closer to 25% sometimes less depending. That's how business' work, sorry if you dont like it. Much less than 50% there is no money in it. And no I am not a dealer or friends with any, but have a good understanding of the math, and dont bring automotive into the equation that is much more high volume and has much more concrete values and cost then say tractors.

 

[fried1765]

Based on a couple of phone calls I got before I could delete the CL ad and the big smile on the guy's face that bought my tractor I'm sure I could have gotten $14K and maybe 15K for it. The Kubota was low hours and in tip top shape. The Rhino bush hog was older but heavy duty and in great shape as well. I understand and agree with dealers' overhead, labor costs, etc. I've been self employed before and experienced them myself. What I don't agree with is greed and this dealer was greedy.

I've never heard anybody factor in the income tax the poor old dealer has to pay on his profits. That's a new one on me. If they are so concerned about the income tax they will have to pay on their profit, then they should bump up my trade, thus lowering their tax liability. My dislike (I don't hate anybody) for this dealer is not misplaced at all.

As a side note, this dealership was where I originally purchased the M4900. I traded in a Massey Ferguson on the Kubota and felt like I got an OK deal. Since then the dealership has changed hands, changed names and new owners had taken over. I hear they are not doing well as the family that had it for many, many years. I think I know why.

Yeah......that "income tax" comment is completely off the wall!

 

[kthompson]

I am stepping out of this discussion but will leave with this: to me it sounds like it was not what the numbers were by themselves, it was how the dealer sales person worded it. I sell insurance, before that real estate so have been in sales near 40 years. There are times you know the person will not like the info you are going to give them...it is of no benefit to anyone to offend them but have learned if you are polite, don't make it personal and explain the reason most people appreciate it. Sometimes one dealer can offer more than the next for a trade as they know they have a ready firm buyer for that tractor while the other one may not be able to really afford the inventory.

 

[nards444]

Yeah......that "income tax" comment is completely off the wall!

Well its the dirty little secret I guess. Have a guy come to your house to quote to build you a deck or build a garage. Get the quote from him and then ask him for the no tax price, **** then respond with you got cash and will knock the price down. Tax is figured into all trades and sales, dont know where you have all been.

 

[RodSerling]

Thank you all for derailing my thread, lol.

Anyway I went and spent some time in a B2650 Cab and 2 things happened. 1st my foot fell off the HST pedal and temporarily got wedged between the door and pedal, not cool and yeah I have big feet and was wearing work boots. 2nd when I was sitting on the seat I realized there was no room for my dog/co-pilot. So a Kubota cab machine is out for me as the L3560 is too big for my needs.
Side note: I did some research on what my BX25D is worth and it looks like I should be able to sell it for $12-14k.

 

[shooterdon]

I was sure I would purchase a Kubota until I drove an LS. Huge difference in price. I am lucky to have a good LS dealer not too far from me that will pick up deliver for free. Even makes house calls.

Good luck.