just when you thought you knew what stupid was

[Diggin It]

Stupid is ....

... continuing this thread. Y'all have a ball, 10-4-Roger keep the rubber side down, I'm out .....

 

[Industrial Toys]

Yes, of course. AGE and pre-existing conditions.

 

[Ford850]

It's not clear from your comment what exact stats you're looking for (by age, etc.) but the overall numbers are pretty revealing of that approach:

Sweden: Total: 83,842 infections, 5,776 deaths. Current: ~ 250 cases/day.

Their neighboring Nordic countries with similar lifestyles, population densities, etc., except they embraced lockdown, social distancing, and mask wearing:

Finland: Total: 7,700 cases, 333 deaths. Current: ~ 10 cases/day
Norway: Total: 9,850 cases, 261 deaths. Current: ~ 50 cases/day

There was an interesting article a few weeks ago looking at the economic fallout. They showed that there has been no difference in economic impact between the two approaches. Finland's and Norway's was severe, but short. Sweden's was slower, but drawn out (and ongoing). All countries are in the same place economically. The difference is Sweden had 10 times the deaths, and is still dealing with outbreaks and infection, while Finland and Norway have largely returned to life as normal.

I read some articles about this. Interesting. It will be more interesting how this pandemic will influence changes to our society going forward... which practices are adopted, accepted, and used as 'best practices' due to the many different approaches taken around the world this year.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Unfortunately, there are too many personality types around, that once they taste control and power over others, they don't ever want to give that up.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

You know this ... as a scientist?

I am actually, a scientist, and that is completely wrong. That is precisely why safeguards such as tenure at Universities, and rigorous peer review to receive grants, and then publish results, are in place.

Can bad apples abuse the system and still find loopholes? Sure? Does it happen? Yes, in very rare and isolated cases, and when it does, there are very severe and harsh repercussions. How many other jobs can you, and will you, be fired from, and never be able to find work again in the field in your lifetime, because you tried to mislead someone?

Is there pressure to perform? Yes, just like any job. The difference is ethics, integrity, and performing "good, evidence based, hypothesis driven science" is the standard by which scientists are measured. If you can't/don't/won't do that, you won't even last through graduate school, let alone develop any sort of career where you are successful.

Are politics involved? Not in the least bit.

Are there pressures for money? That's just downright laughable. Any researcher knows they could go into industry and make at least 50% more. Scientists aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the pure joy of scientific discovery.

Scientific investigation is actually free from so many of the constraints and pressures of modern industry/business that lead to unscrupulous behavior.

As a former Industrial Research Chemist (admittedly at the B.S. level), I am very heartened to hear you say that. My training and experience tells me that Science must above all be honest, but there are many things today that make me think that politics has invaded what was once sacred, and anything scientific with political implications cannot be trusted...global warming, for one thing. The claims that I hear, and the manipulation of methods and results alleged are very disheartening. Having worked for the state, and interacting with EPA, I believe politics have heavily influenced final rules, policies and practices. Perhaps the scientists are not to blame, but politicians...but I would like to hear a scientific consensus on global warming. Having run experiments in my time, dealt with methods and results, and worked with engineers and modeling, I believe (a) that global warming is substantially natural, and (b) even if man's contribution was meaningful, taking in consideration the variability and unpredictability of biological systems, particularly on a global basis, that there is no way that it could be determined accurately or perhaps even difinitively.

You have given me cause to rethink scientists in today's world.

 

[RSR]

As a former Industrial Research Chemist (admittedly at the B.S. level), I am very heartened to hear you say that. My training and experience tells me that Science must above all be honest, but there are many things today that make me think that politics has invaded what was once sacred, and anything scientific with political implications cannot be trusted...global warming, for one thing. The claims that I hear, and the manipulation of methods and results alleged are very disheartening. Having worked for the state, and interacting with EPA, I believe politics have heavily influenced final rules, policies and practices. Perhaps the scientists are not to blame, but politicians...but I would like to hear a scientific consensus on global warming. Having run experiments in my time, dealt with methods and results, and worked with engineers and modeling, I believe (a) that global warming is substantially natural, and (b) even if man's contribution was meaningful, taking in consideration the variability and unpredictability of biological systems, particularly on a global basis, that there is no way that it could be determined accurately or perhaps even difinitively.

You have given me cause to rethink scientists in today's world.

Thanks. Trust the science.

Go straight to the source (the peer-reviewed journal article that reports the findings). That's your best chance at parsing out political speak from provable fact.

If an article or individual makes claims about anything, without being able or willing to quote the peer-reviewed studies that back it up, alarm bells should start going off in your head.

As an example, see the story that started this thread.

 

[/pine]

...Their neighboring Nordic countries with similar lifestyles, population densities, etc., except they embraced lockdown, social distancing, and mask wearing:

This is a highly biased comparison...The lifestyles may be similar in the more rural regions but they are nothing alike in places like Stockholm or Copenhagen etc...
The stringent distancing and quarantining in Norway and Finland why not mention Denmark ?

In reality the spread rate in Stockholm can be compared to that of London with 10X the population...not much different than US hot spots and in a country where distancing was often ignored...

 

[Industrial Toys]

Not saying this is right or wrong. Just happened to see it come up onmy Apple TV Youtube. Pretty short. I t hink you need to see and hear a lot of angles before you can make form any opinion at all.

ER Doctors Reveal Disturbing COVID Truths Media Won’t Tell You | LevinTV - YouTube

 

[/pine]

Thanks. Trust the science.

Go straight to the source (the peer-reviewed journal article that reports the findings). That's your best chance at parsing out political speak from provable fact.

If an article or individual makes claims about anything, without being able or willing to quote the peer-reviewed studies that back it up, alarm bells should start going off in your head.

As an example, see the story that started this thread.

You've repeated this term ad nauseam...it's a joke...i.e., "birds of a feather..."...in a day when journalists and judges are proven to have biases etc...add to that the AGW debate and it puts so called scientists at the top of the suspect list...

any study/finding is debatable...there is no clearing house on absolute facts...If there was any rock solid evidence that the talking heads and politicians that advocate masks could offer they would do so...but this is really not about masks or even COVID...it's about agendas and biases etc...it's entirely political on either side...private or public...

In the private sector whoever ultimately writes the checks sets the agenda or in the public sector it's a congressional committee that oversees the funding...you can tell yourself differently until you're blue in the face but it's a fact of life you should get used to...

 

[deezler]

^ dude, you could easily find the facts if you wanted to. There are clear facts about efficacy of mask use. But its clear that you would rather sit here and call it all political nonsense, so that you can feel justified in doing what you want to do, instead of helping. You need to change your forum signature under your posts.... not at all succinct, bud.