How long before Compact Diesels are obsolete?

[Diggin It]

I don't think size is that big an issue (pun intended). We already have small sized standby and portable generators that can put out significant power using gasoline, diesel, LP or NG. How much power would be needed to run electric motors? PowerTrac already seems to be doing it on a smaller scale. Can electric motors run hydraulic pumps?

Combustion to electric to hydraulic, or some combination of that with the goal of substantially reducing the size/HP of the combustion engine without going full battery. What kind of loss is there in each conversion though?

 

[Diggin It]

We also have to remember that more electric motors and other devices means more copper for windings and the copper supply is not unlimited. It can be recycled effectively, but that requires existing devices be scrapped for salvage.

What can replace copper in coil windings?

 

[3Ts]

We also have to remember that more electric motors and other devices means more copper for windings and the copper supply is not unlimited. It can be recycled effectively, but that requires existing devices be scrapped for salvage.

What can replace copper in coil windings?[/QUOTE]

This is a really interesting question and something to watch for. There are better electrical conductors than copper, copper is used because of cost. The cost vs application is what determines the materials used. Steel conductors are used in the high tension power distribution lines. I see the development of conductors as being similar to the discovery of the transistor and the development of battery technology over the last several years. I expect to start seeing different materials to start showing up in the coming years, but I have no idea what it will be.

 

[Mat4644]

The electric lawn tractors of the 70s weren't that good. Notice that in promotional videos they are always clipping grass that's only grown 1/2 inch. Taller grass the batteries didn't last long. Plus you had to watch overheating blade motors in high load conditions. That's why they didn't last in the marketplace.

In the future there will still be gears and transmissions needed to keep motors in optimal torque and efficiency ranges. With all the technology these will not be the simple to work on low cost devices predicted in the original post. They will not be silent and will have a characteristic whine.

 

[dougtrr2]

You could make very similar argument that everyone should want to be driving small efficient commuter cars. But I don't see that marked flooded with choices or cars either.

Doug in SW IA

 

[Hay Dude]

California has rolling blackouts now...more battery powered vehicles will only make that worse when they mandate electric vehicles.

Nonsense...cover a million hectares of California (with the exception of Hollywood and Malibu) with solar panels and put windmills atop the Sierra Nevadas and they can make enough power! :laughing:

 

[Hay Dude]

The electric lawn tractors of the 70s weren't that good. Notice that in promotional videos they are always clipping grass that's only grown 1/2 inch. Taller grass the batteries didn't last long. Plus you had to watch overheating blade motors in high load conditions. That's why they didn't last in the marketplace.

In the future there will still be gears and transmissions needed to keep motors in optimal torque and efficiency ranges. With all the technology these will not be the simple to work on low cost devices predicted in the original post. They will not be silent and will have a characteristic whine.

It was pretty good for its time. I remember my pop kept his sears suburban gas tractor as a backup though.....just in case.
No telling what it cost to charge the batteries. I was too young to understand all the kw/hr stuff.

 

[Mat4644]

Nobody wants to ride an electric Harley that sounds like your electric razor. Nobody wants to ride a tractor through the woods that sounds like a Waring Blender. I suggest the electric tractor of the future have a programmable sound system under the hood. On a Green month you could start with a Waterloo Boy then to 30s Johnny Poppers then to the massive 720 2 cylinder. Once finished with vintage sounds move on to diesels and turbo diesels. Next month could perhaps be Red and vintage IH engines. We don't want to become a whiney buzzy tractor nation.

Also perhaps a scent generator could be utilized that puts a faint whiff of oil, grease and diesel in the air would be appropriate. That way we could feel normal driving around with our man bun and manicured toenails.

 

[fried1765]

Let me know if this is the wrong place to put this, but IMHO, the advantages of electric powered tractors in the smaller sizes (under, say, 100hp) will be so massive that even though cars are ahead in the development, new small electric tractors will begin taking over the market somewhere around 2025, and by 2030, they will have made diesels in the under 60 hp class obsolete, for the following reasons:
1. Diesel engines and the various transmissions are extremely expensive to design and produce compared to electric drive trains.
2. The limitation on continuous use of electric tractors - probably 4 hours or so at a clip before requiring recharge, on the lower priced machines won't be a problem to most small tractor owners. For those for whom it is a problem, more batteries can be put in the tractor.
3. No more lugging and pouring cans of diesel is not a nothing-burger.
4. The problem of battery weight in cars is an advantage in most tractors, as it can increase both traction and stability if properly situated.
5. Lower maintenance costs and full control of speed without many gallons of hydro oil for locomotion.
6. In tractors with loaders, portable supplemental battery packs could potentially charged while the tractor is working, and added to the loader when using PTO implements, or carried on the 3pt. when doing loader work.
7. CUTs are not really screamingly noisy but the electric tractors' quiet will be appreciated.
8. Prices will be competitive with diesels by 2025 and will be significantly less expensive than diesels by 2030.
9. An electric tractor charged from home solar or wind will appeal to the "independent" types, like most of us here.
10. If made properly, repairs to an Electric Tractor should be much easier and require much less technical knowledge than compact diesels.

Disclaimer: I am invested in electric vehicles, electric tractors and solar panel makers.

Worldwide, much of the electric power used to charge these battery powered tractors (and primarily cars) will be produced by coal fired plants, with the associated power distribution networks requiring massive upgrades.
There is no FREE LUNCH!

 

[Mat4644]

It was pretty good for its time. I remember my pop kept his sears suburban gas tractor as a backup though.....just in case.
No telling what it cost to charge the batteries. I was too young to understand all the kw/hr stuff.

From what I remember they took readily available golf cart batteries. Somewhat expensive but reasonable. I remember my Aunt with the small riding version with the steering wheel up front I had to cut the lawn with a gas mower whenever it got a little high.