New shop build, beginning stages with questions

   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #161  
Remember what the old hydraulic in floor jacks cost back in the day.....back when you could have a pit in your shop.

My buddy just built a 60x120 shop and had the nerve to put a drain for snow runoff. The inspector made him install a trap to catch and prevent any oil from entering the ground. The entire trap unit was several thousand dollars he told me. It had to be traffic rated.But he does tend to exaggerate. Not sure what entire trap system cost. He wanted to build a pit. They refused to let him. He put in a 4 post lift instead of fighting it.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #162  
need picture

I just took these three. I'm not good with computer stuff and it tells me that it can't find any new ones on my phone that showed them in place befrore placing concrete. 001.JPG002.JPG003.JPG The first is a form 8' long. The second is a left over section of the concrete I poured and the third is after cutting to length with a diamond blade.
 
Last edited:
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #163  
You made 400 of these? Wow!!!!
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions
  • Thread Starter
#164  
That's interesting, not what I was picturing with the description but would work fine, the little concrete blocks with wire at $.70 don't sound bad until you multiply by a large number...

I got the landscape fabric put down and gravel over it for the driveway to the shop started today, and more gravel put in the shop, moved around 10 yards of gravel with my little tractor again... compacted what I added and used the laser level and most of the floor is within an inch now and the offending areas on each end marked for correction... Getting closer!
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #165  
Yes you are!!!! I call that tedious work. Patience required. And worth it.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #166  
When hiring a concrete contractor, there are a few red flags that jump out beforehand, but are too late to deal with afterwards. Anybody using mesh instead of rebar needs to be avoided!!!! It's not even debatable, mesh is impossible to walk on and spread concrete. It is impossible to pull it up while spreading concrete and for it to remain inside the slab while walking on it. If they say they can do this, they are lying.

Rebar on 24 inch centers should be the minimum. For my own stuff, I do it at 16 inches. That gives me enough room to walk between it, with a lot more strength for minimal expense.

Fiber doesn't hurt, but it doesn't replace rebar.

The number one reason concrete cracks is from too much water added to the mix. In commercial jobs, they do a slump test where you scoop up some of the concrete in a small one quart container and turn it upside down just like kids do at the beach when building a sand castle. The concrete should hold that shape. If it's like soup, they have too much water in it. They add extra water because that makes it a lot easier to spread out. Spreading it dry enough to pass the slump test on a residential job isn't practical, but I mentioned it to show the degree of ideal, and what you have to deal with.

When water evaporates from the mix, the concrete has less volume and it cracks. The less water that evaporates, the smaller the cracks. Just think about how much volume a 5 gallon bucket of water is. Then think of how much volume ten of those 5 gallon buckets take up. All of that volume will evaporate and as it leaves the concrete, the concrete cracks.

Any contractor that pushes mesh over rebar is very likely to add too much water to the mix.

For your lift, just dig down another foot and create a footing 2ft x 2ft. For houses, I make that footing 2 feet deep. For you lift, I would guess that a foot deep would be plenty strong enough, but another foot wont even be noticed in the final cost of your concrete. Tie your rebar across the footing in both directions and into the rest of the rebar. The footing will be obviously deeper then the rest of the pad and easy to avoid with your PEX.

Most pads are based on the size of the forms used. 2x4's give you 3 1/2 inches thick, which is the standard for most thing included garages. 2x6's give you 5 1/2 inches, which is more industrial. For 3 1/2 inch pads, I use 3/8's rebar, which is also called #3 rebar. For thicker areas, I go with 1/2 inch rebar, which is also called #4 rebar. I'm told that in areas of FL and LA, where hurricanes are really bad, they only allow 5/8's rebar or bigger. All of my footings get two layers of rebar. One at the same height as the pad, the other row is a couple inches off of the bottom of the pad. I pound short lengths of rebar into the ground to tie the footing rebar to, and keep it all straight.

Rebar is extremely easy to do yourself. It's time consuming, and you are bent over a lot tying each joint together, but with a pig tail, it moves along. 20 foot lengths at a concrete supply store will cost less then 10 foot lengths at the Box Stores. They will also have the best prices on chairs, ties, and pig tails.

Concrete rarely cracks from the ground settling under it. Compaction is important since the slab needs to be resting on it for all eternity, but it takes a massive amount of weight to cause concrete to crack if the ground settles a little under it. Usually nobody will ever know if the ground settles under a slab. All foundation issues are when the ground settles under the footings, which is rare because the footings are dug down into virgin soil. I've also found that in almost every home that I look at with the home owner telling me that they have foundation issues, it's almost always a framing issue in their roof. Soil compaction is important, but too much water in the mix is where 99 percent of all cracks come from!!!! Rebar in the middle of the pad holds it together so you don't see the cracks. Rebar or wire mesh on the bottom of the pad will accomplish nothing, so the cracks become bigger, and then the soil under it is blamed.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions
  • Thread Starter
#167  
I'm the one that brought up the mesh since I thought it would be easier for the PEX... then started thinking about practicality like you are talking about... they quoted #4 rebar.

I've got some thinking to do, almost have the gravel flat to the level for a 6" slab, with vapor barrier and rebar that should be sufficient for the lift, I'm not putting in a big 12k pound unit, the only time they say you need a 4x4 1' thick pad of concrete for the lift is if you have to dig out and have independent footing for the lift.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #168  
Pex ties easily to rebar, and is much simpler to walk thru and around. Ive seen it installed so many ways its amazing. Ive seen it spiked into foam boards, tied onto rebar and the fanciest one was on a job where they had premade aluminum and or plastic supports to keep all corners firmly inplace.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #169  
If I'm doing it myself, my PEX would be stapled to the pinkboard. Rebar chaired in the middle of my slab.

Eddie's points about footings is important. If a slab is poured within the parameters of an existing building there is nothing at the edges of the slab to hold it in place other than the thickness of the slab. Without footings the slab needs to be thick enough to withstand the movement that will absolutely happen with freezing/thawing.
 
   / New shop build, beginning stages with questions #170  
I did some research before preparation of my floor. My hoist manufacturer specifies 4" of 3000 mpa. I used 5" of 3500 mpa and put a footing 2'x6'x8" directly under the slab where the two posts will sit with extra rebar. The rest if the floor sits on 2" of styrofoam. 1/2" rebar was put in 10"x14" squares, and using the concrete chairs I used, it will sit in the centre of the slab. The 1/2" pex sits on top of the bar which is suggested as the best height. The pex held pressure while the concrete was poured and it seemed that the crew walked on top of the bar without any problems. I am satisfied that everything is reasonably good. Including the fill underneath, the floor cost near $10,000 and a lot of my labour. I didn`t want to scrimp.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2018 John Deere 460E Articulated Dump Truck (A51039)
2018 John Deere...
2022 Wacker Neuson SM100 Mini Skid Steer (A51039)
2022 Wacker Neuson...
2015 Chevrolet Impala Sedan (A49461)
2015 Chevrolet...
WASTE OIL TANK (A50854)
WASTE OIL TANK...
2025 Safety Basket Forklift Attachment (A50322)
2025 Safety Basket...
2010 Keystone Cougar 5th Wheel T/A Travel Trailer (A48082)
2010 Keystone...
 
Top