Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

Cat385B · Jun 5, 2021

That gentleman in the video on the previous page needs a napkin every time he says Tesla.
First off, he states the Mustang Mach E is a failure. Incorrect. It out sold the Mustang the last two months.
He states that people who are waiting for a Tesla might settle for an inferior Ford EV. Inferior? Apparently, Tesla has never had an issue with anything they’ve sold as far as reliability. Wait......
Lithium mining is about to really ramp up. Does Tesla have contracts for all of it? I don’t think so, Tim.
If the Cybertruck ends up being far superior to the F150 Lightning, and cheaper, the F150 EV may only outsell the CYbertruck by a ratio of 7 or 8 to 1. I’m thinking 12:1 is more realistic.
There are some people who would benefit logistically from a BEV. They might buy one. Others will continue buying traditional ICE vehicles. But, most truck owners would switch over to the brand they’re familiar with. Who sells the most trucks again?
Aesthetically, lots of folks buy based on appearance. I think Tesla might be in last place there, in the truck segment.

travisbb · Jun 6, 2021

Gale Hawkins said:
Travis does this guy's points about the F150 Lighting seem more correct in a technical sense to you?

(For others with busy lives, that video gets to the meat at six minutes in)

Yes Gale, as far as I can tell that's all technically accurate. The battery size hasn't been released, but 100+KWH is a given. 150KW chargers means charging during road trips is going to be slow. This is why I say a lot of existing private pickup owners won't switch over -- the road-tripability is much poorer than any ICE F-150. Urban drivers who rarely or never did road trips outside the city won't know any better and will just live with it. Like most EVs, day-to-day charging will either happen overnight at home, or at parking lot chargers which are only rarely faster than 50KW, so the maximum charge rate doesn't come into play.

That video also mentions the 5.5' bed as a problem. For me personally, I agree. But I sure see a lot of 4-door shortbox pickups driving around, so they are popular enough to sell. I'm not entirely sure on what the frame looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if fleet models could be ordered as extended cabs with 6.5' beds instead. In any case, cab and bed configurations will undoubtedly come in time as Ford saturates the most profitable end of the market.

Gale Hawkins · Jun 6, 2021

I find EV news out of Australia helpful since it is in English even if they don't drive on the right side of the road.

Since they are next door to Asia naturally they're going to attract the Asian vehicle makers. This video states 10 years ago only 1 percent of their imported vehicles were from China but now it's 6 percent.

At this point many Chinese EV are not yet exporting so there are some names mentioned here that could begin coming to the USA market like Japanese makers did 50 years ago. China is building some higher end EVs today. China is expected to become a major supplier of EVs to the USA market since they are the leading source of EV batteries in the world.

Gale Hawkins · Jun 6, 2021

This another non USA site I enjoy that a few may want to review if planning to purchase an EV in the next 5 years when the price point is less than fossil fuel options.

Hay Dude · Jun 6, 2021

I’m pretty excited to see what happens.
Although I know the reduction in pollution claims is “scammy” because power plants are going to have to burn a lot more coal to charge all these EV’s, with diesels being ruined by DPF/DEF, we need a new solution.
Short haul and local delivery electric trucks should be a very easy segment for company owners to move into and manufacturers to appeal to.
Heck, they were used 100 years ago, so what’s the big deal?

MossRoad · Jun 6, 2021

Cat385B said:
...Who sells the most trucks again?
...

General Motors

Grumpycat · Jun 6, 2021

Gale Hawkins said:
EV boom to trigger spending of US$560b to build lithium-ion battery factories this decade, says Rystad

I never expected this hyper EV craze. I guess after BYD and Tesla showed the rest of the world the EV path many must have wanted in on the movement. I wish the battery technology was more enhanced before they start building millions of cars with batteries that may not hold up long-term.

Nissan and Fiat are the only ones who abused EV batteries.

Grumpycat · Jun 6, 2021

Hay Dude said:
I’m pretty excited to see what happens.
Although I know the reduction in pollution claims is “scammy” because power plants are going to have to burn a lot more coal to charge all these EV’s, ...

Why do you jump on coal as if it is the only means of electricity production? Coal produced only 19% of the USA consumption of electricity in 2020: Electricity in the U.S. - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Furthermore, if you work the math (for some reason the EPA would rather obfuscate this) a power hog 380Wh/mile Tesla Model S on pure 100% coal fired electricity is responsible for the same CO2 generation as a conventional gasoline automobile getting 30 MPG. But the EV can effortlessly use nuclear, natural gas, hydro, solar, or whatever form of electricity is available. While the gasoline engine has great difficulty when gasoline is diluted by as little as 10% ethanol. Not to mention the difficulty of making and transporting ethanol.

Or the same difficulty, questionable benefit, questionable economics, of biodiesel.

MossRoad · Jun 6, 2021

Hay Dude said:
I’m pretty excited to see what happens.
Although I know the reduction in pollution claims is “scammy” because power plants are going to have to burn a lot more coal to charge all these EV’s, with diesels being ruined by DPF/DEF, we need a new solution.
Short haul and local delivery electric trucks should be a very easy segment for company owners to move into and manufacturers to appeal to.
Heck, they were used 100 years ago, so what’s the big deal?

Got a question for you, since you're a person that works their truck VS daily driver/grocery getter on short hops. Are your working hours set day-to-day? Are there days where you work late into the night and get up early the following to make another heavy delivery of hay? Will you have enough time overnight to get it charged fully before you have to go again? Do you make more than 1 trip a day and will the battery last as long as you need it if you have to do 2 trips? Things like that. I'm curious how much range it'll provide if you have to do a double or triple some day. Or are you going to have to stop somewhere and take a nap for an hour or four, depending on charger availability?

I don't drive for a living. I have, however, had 'those days' in my life when I had to make a couple fully loaded back-to-back runs more than 200 miles round trip each to the same place for various reasons. College move-ins and move-outs come to mind. Had 9 years of dealing with those. 1 day to complete the job. No choice. Had a two-day event where I had to tow a 6x12 trailer 100 miles, load it and my Suburban full of furniture, then drive back home. Sleep for a few house and the had 1 day to drive 375 miles to Pittsburg, unload a full apartment of furnishings, drop off the trailer, and then drive back 375 miles. Due to other engagements, work obligations, etc... I had just 2 days to complete those tasks. I could not have done it on time with an electric vehicle.

So while an electric truck may work for you on most short trips, will there be enough times when it won't to be of concern? Maybe you have multiple tow vehicles, so the point is moot. Take the electric on most of the trips and the spare diesel on the longer hauls?

I just don't see an electric truck working for us. An electric car would be fine as a 2nd car for around town for us. But I like 4 door sedans for road trips, so we'd again want 3 vehicles, and I'm trying to pare down to just 2 for the two of us.

Thoughts comments appreciated, thanks.