Prospective purchase for the mountains.

[strev]

Some quick points from someone who has a rough hilly block and went through this decision just under a year ago:

Largest HST Tractor in Aus?

I'm looking to purchase a tractor and would prefer hydrostatic transmission. However, the biggest HST tractors that I know of available in Australia are all about 1700kg in weight and around 50-60hp. For example, the TYM T503 and T613 (main difference being the engine), the JD 4049M or 6069M...

www.tractorbynet.com

- tractors are far less stable than I had anticipated (typical style anyway). By comparison a 4wd ute/pickup is far safer and more capable on slopes.
- it is the cg in relation to the rear wheels that determines stability. The lower and closer back to the rear wheels it gets, the more stable it is. Assuming you don't go behind them (or get close to going behind them)....
- filling the rear tyres with water (no freezing here) hugely improved stability. They were already on their widest setting.
- 4wd makes the tractor far safer. I've left it in 2wd a couple of times and once was completely freaked out at how easily it skipped down a simple hill out of control....
- HST is awesome and I'm glad I went that route. Such fine control over exactly how slow you can go, which I find important on rough steep ground.
- mines 50hp and weighs about 1700kg. It is more limited by traction than by hp. Though if running hay balers or similar that might not be the case.
- FEL is great, and my most used implement (well, the bucket and stick rake that I put onto it are).
- my father purchased a posi-track recently - a tracked skid steer - and thinks it is great. I haven't seen or had a go on it yet.

 

[boozle]

Good questions - Pics would help.

Overgrown old logging roads that we'd like to reclaim What does this mean? Has brush grown up that needs to be cut down? Is this a dirt moving task to correct erosion, recontour the road? Not sure if this is a simple fix or a major undertaking. Pics would help.

The other trails and meadows are overgrown and need a lot of work to get back to usable condition - Same questions and pics would again help.

What is your budget for a tractor?

Moving dirt, sapplings.. they probably haven't been maintained in 20 years I can go through them with a sidebyside or a truck. There are a couple trails to connect that I'd probably either hire out, or rent an excavator. If I was being honest with myself I'd say high volume of low intensity/unskilled work. But that's my laymen answer.

Budget would be approximately $30k all-in..

 

[boozle]

I have 180 forested acres up in Ontario Canada. We started out by making a list of the tasks we planned to do and what attachment we'd need for it. That lead us to a JD 2130, big enough to run a decent wood chipper and pull large logs. But like sea2summit said, tractors are for puling things in a field, they are hard to maneuver around in the woods and don't have great traction off trail.

Are you planning to only reclaim what the old owner cut out from the forest or are you planning on creating more trails and fields?

Basically use the original logging roads. The town road used to go through our property and there are old homesteads and tobacco barns that we would like to reconnect. Stuff from 100 years ago that the world grew around it.

Do you want to learn how to mix and maintain a tractor, or buy something newer that you can take to the dealer for repair?

There will probably be 2 phases to your journey. The creation phase where you cut new trails, clear land, move lots of rocks and dirt. Something like a tracked skidsteer or excavator would be better for this. The machines and attachments are not cheap. Maybe you could buy used and sell them in a couple years.

Once all that's done the next phase is maintenance: cutting the grass on tails and cleaning up blow downs. A medium sized (40-50hp) tractor with 4x4 in your case would be well suited to this.

I am a "city slicker" with no experience with tractors.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor weight is more important identifying compact tractor capability than tractor horsepower.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Bare tractor weight is a fundamental tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used. Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.

I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise which cuts through specification clutter. I have a column for cost per pound.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after eight years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

I've found a 2038r in North Florida for what I consider an acceptable deal in these current times.

The Deere 2038r is in the lighter tranche of compact tractors at 2,500 pounds bare tractor weight. Compact tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in landscape, kitchen/commercial garden or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres. I would consider the forward PTO of the Deere 2038r or any other light tractor a damage prone hindrance on slopes or in woods.

For 105 acres, reclamation and maintenance I recommend a wider, heavier tractor weighing 3,500 to 4,500 pounds bare tractor weight.These are the mid-weights in the compact tractor category and sell in high unit volumes. Every tractor brand has at least an economy and deluxe compact tractor model in this weight.

Tractors are inherently unstable operating on sloped ground. Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, sometimes adjustable, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. A 6" to 10" wider rear axle substantially decreases tractor rollover potential.

As part of property maintenance of 100 acres of forest you will need to pick up tree trunk sections weighing 1,000 to 2,000 pounds on a regular basis.

T-B-N ARCHIVE:
TRACTOR FOR STEEP HILLS SLOPES MOUNTAINS site:tractorbynet.com


When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.


RELEVENT THREADS FROM THE T-B-N ARCHIVE:

tractor for sloped hilly steep ground site: tractorbynet.com

Your posts have been very helpful. I found a 4044r JD slightly used cheaper than new 2 series.. but alas, he took a deposit 24 hours before I read these posts and started looking bigger. I'm hoping the other buyer doesn't have the cash and can't get financing, but I somehow doubt it.

I'm also researching the Ventracs as well.

 

[airbiscuit]

About $30k would get you a Kubota LX3310 before rebates. it's comparable to the John Deere 2038R. Either is smaller than I would like, but it could manage your tasks (rough cut mowing saplings, box blade and rear blade road/trail maintenance, grapple work). It would be fine for your first tractor.

 

[airbiscuit]

....Your posts have been very helpful. I found a 4044r JD slightly used cheaper than new 2 series.. but alas, he took a deposit 24 hours before I read these posts and started looking bigger. I'm hoping the other buyer doesn't have the cash and can't get financing, but I somehow doubt it. .....

That would be a much better choice if it becomes available.

 

[MedfordDuffer]

Hey all,

Last year, we purchased 105 acres in the mountains of Western North Carolina that are mostly wooded with about 6 acres of meadows in hollows and plenty of overgrown old logging roads that we'd like to reclaim. The prior owners quit maintaining everything a few years ago except for the lawn around the house and the driveway.

The main driveway is about a 3/4 mile and is useable for now. The other trails and meadows are overgrown and need a lot of work to get back to usable condition. In addition to cleanup, there seems to always be something on the property that needs done (trees, brush, etc).

Our original intent was to hire out local professionals to support the maintenance, but it is clearly cost prohibitive considering the ongoing work required. I'm capable of learning, but an I am admitted "city slicker" with no experience with tractors.

I'm looking for advice!

I tried local dealers with experience in the area, however nothing is in stock. I've found a 2038r in North Florida for what I consider an acceptable deal in these current times. However, the advice from dealer seems limited to their experience in tropical temps and flat ground use. For example: I was told that extra ballast isn't required except for filling up the tires with water (only water). Wheel spacers are not beneficial. I'm not knocking them, because they know their stuff.. just not familiar with the terrain of another area.

So I'm seeking out some advice and support from the forums. My first and major concern is safety with regards to tipping/rolling the tractor in the mountains.

1. My inclinometer has 13 degrees vertical as the max of our main roads on the property and that's just the driveways. I'm very concerned about tipping the tractor and wanting to configure it in the safest way for the mountains.

2. I was going to start with box blade, forks and bush-hog, (and ballast) and wait until determining if I need other equipment. Looking for input on if the standard frontier implements BB2060, RC2060 is adequate.

3. What comparative models would you recommend from Kubota, Massey etc..

4. What advice would you give to someone who is using their equipment higher in the mountains? I would probably use a Zero turn for the lawn grass. Tractor is truly for utility.



Thanks everyone!

OK, so I tractor around 17 acres on the steep banks of the Clinch River in Anderson Co. TN, and have a farm in Chatham Co. NC. I owned a JD 3520, 4 wheel drive good for 85% of task. Upgraded to JD 4066 also 4WD to get to 100% of task, and very happy. Get 4WD at the very least, will prevent many troubles and safety issues. 40 hp, but 60 better. Yes to Box blade, heaviest duty front end loader you can afford, goes the same for material bucket. If you have to lay water line, etc, a ripper, a backhoe. May have to do this in stages. Go big the first time, otherwise you will wish you got the bigger one. Look at JD, Kubota, Mahindra (they make the innards of the other makes). For mowing, look at Cub Cadet, steering wheel models. Flippers not very safe on slopes.

 

[DKCDKC]

I have 120 acres in the mountains of Virginia, and a driveway that curls a full mile through that property. I know slopes. A lot of the advise you are getting is good - but all of it must be tempered by what you actually need to do and how much you have to spend. I started in 2000 with a 65 hp old JD 2030 from the 1970s. It was big, relatively stable and strong enough to do a lot of work with digging, grading and rotary cutting. I paid about $7,500 for it in 2000 and ran it until 2012. It took some work to keep it going, but I learned quick and got advice from area farmers. Although I grew up around tractors, I knew nothing about diesel. In 2012 my advancing age, joint issues, a desire for 4x4 and worries about more maintenance prompted me to trade the old JD in on a new. Got a JD 3038e because it had all the basics and no frills. The JD dealer gave me a good amount for the old tractor and the new was affordable for a retiree. It now has 700 hours on it and has given zero problems. It's a solid little tractor that does what I want. It is not as powerful as the 2030 but does far better in snow. The hydro trans makes bush-hogging easier. A Ratchet-Rake and box blade keep the driveway pretty dern good, and my new Brush Crusher lets me run around picking up small logs and brush to save my old back. I could probably have gone bigger, but I'd had had little left for implements. My one complaint is common to all CUTs. It is a narrow tractor and far less stable going across slopes. But you learn to deal with it. I know how far I can comfortably lean the tractor and I go no farther. With ground hog holes and soil imperfections, you have to allow a margin for safety. So I change my cutting or dragging angle to go up and down the slope. I am also about to add spacers on the rear tires for extra safety. Filling the tires is a given. Bottom line is to do your research to figure out what you really need - the ideal tractor. And then get as close to it as your budget will allow. A larger, used first tractor might be a good step to give you the stability you need to learn, then go later to a smaller unit that meets your needs. People with small work on flat land and those with large wallets have no problems picking a tractor. For the rest of us you have to use balance and do the best you can with what you have. (And having a really good local dealer is also very important.)

 

[deberha2]

I have a Kioti CK30 in IL 11 acres mostly flat but the ditch by the road is really steep. It is no fun when the rear of the tractor starts to slide sideways and the uphill front wheel gets really light. I’ve given up on mowing it both with the tractor and 2 different ferris zero turns. I let the county road guys do it with their ditch mowing tractors. The zero turn I had going across and it seemed one lever was full forward and the other was in reverse just to keep it pointed uphill enough to mow across the hill. There is a culvert at the bottom you don’t want to get into and that prevents you from going up and down. So I don’t have any experience in the mountains but have been in the o crap situations enough. I do think that for your property I would not consider anything under 35 hp and as others have said go big, heavy, and ballasted. Someone mentioned a tracked skidsteer as an option and I really think that you should take a look at those. I have not used them but have hired 2 pros for projects on my property and that is what they used. They are incredible machines. I saw one pick up an oak log about 15 ft long that would barely fit in the grapple. The back end was coming off the ground but after a few tries they got it up and moved. I think they excel at construction and destruction type of work which sounds like what you need. Someone mentioned the option of a manual trans tractor which seems like a really bad idea for a newbie on hills. I have borrowed a buddies huge old JD to move some equipment my loader wouldn’t pick up. It was a manual. I felt like spider man with both arms and legs going at the same time and nothing but your rear holding you onto the seat. (I have owned manual trans cars and trucks for 30 years) The CK30 is HST so you have one foot firmly planted in addition to your rear on the seat. So whatever you buy test it out and make sure you like the pedal placement and controls. There are a lot of options. My CK has the forward/reverse AND left/right brake pedals all on the right foot with nothing on the left side (except the rear diff lock which is handy even with 4x4 to get you un-stuck) Seems like a dumb setup but my brakes should last forever because they only get used for parking. I think nearly every tractor implement has an equivalent skidsteer attachment. I swear I saw a brand new DEERE tracked machine on a trailer with a backhoe attachment on the rear (engine) end!?! the other day. Back when the CK was purchased, the main task for it was mowing about 7 acres a week and pushing some snow in the winter. since then the mowing has been reduced and I purchased a farm property with 6 acre hay field, put up fences for horses, and have done a lot of construction. It has been able to handle everything so far but the steep ditch mowing and being able to lift really heavy stuff with the loader (turned up the PSI but it still struggles at times) So as others have said you might make a list of tasks and try to imagine over time how that list might evolve. If I had to choose tractor vs tracked skidsteer all over again now I believe I would have gone with the skidsteer. Look up all of the attachments you might need too because you can get a used pto post hole auger for $300 for a tractor but the skidsteer hydraulic version will be triple that price plus. (rentals are available though) A rear blade is light years ahead of a front loader bucket for snow removal. A quick attach front end along with a set of forks and some spare pallets are required. You will also need fuel storage. Lugging 5 gallon cans from the station is horrible. 200 gallons is minimum for my diesel delivery. I have a raised 300 gallon tank I got used for $300. Rest of my gear includes: box blade, disc harrow, 2” receiver 3 point adapter, 6 bale square bale grapple, backhoe attachment with subframe (thumb for it but not welded on yet) cheap front grapple that I have nearly destroyed (buy HD!), fence post hydraulic driver, 3pt finish mower (gets used as a brush hog sometimes). I also have a steel barrel concrete filled 3pt counter weight that is under construction. Hope some of this helps you out.

 

[jeff9366]

Your posts have been very helpful.
I found a 4044r JD slightly used cheaper than new 2 series.. but alas, he took a deposit 24 hours before I read these posts and started looking bigger. I'm hoping the other buyer doesn't have the cash and can't get financing, but I somehow doubt it.

I'm also researching the Ventracs.

Good.

I recommend Ventrac only as a primary mower, not for forest work.
Though you may use Ventrac for trail mowing after a tractor does your clearing and restoration work.

I am glad you comprehend the importance of bare tractor weight and how this spec simplifies tractor comparisons.

This thread has developed nicely and I have enjoyed reading your contributors opinions.

The supply chain should be functioning better during October-November-December. Seasonal demand will slacken too.

Anticipation is 50% of satisfaction. Shop patiently. Buy enough tractor.

 

[rScotty]

I also enjoyed the article: "Chapter 6 Road Construction Techniques".

Here's another option for you and your land. This is the one that I recommend to friends with new property and little tractor experience...

1. Most important: Simply hire a skilled operator with a bulldozer to rebuild your existing roads. He will do more for less money than you can even imagine. He may even make you a few new roads. It's what bulldozers do, and they do it remarkably reasonably. Slopes don't bother a good operator.

2. Then after the bulldozer leaves you will have gained a few years which you can spend maintaining rather than creating and can simply go with whatever tractor you like best. Your world of usable tractors just expanded tremendously because most all will work. Larger and older will be fine. Get a nice FEL and a tractor you feel comfortable using. Most people with 40 acres or more end up with a tractor plus a dedicated mowing machine.

You will need one special rear implement for the tractor, so be prepared to spend real money for a heavy back blade with adjustments for angle, tilt, and offset - and also get the optional shoes and endcaps, That back blade will cost in the region of $2500 for a six footer, but it will maintain a dirt road nicely AFTER the bulldozer makes the road. Rhino and perhaps Land Pride and a few others make that sort of blade.

Unfortunately, you cannot make the road initially even with that nice back blade behind the tractor because the tractor will be pulling it, whereas the bulldozer pushes it.
No FEL has the same versatility as a bulldozer blade - That's because FEL buckets don't have tilt and angle capability independent of the tractor. And even if they did have that capability and a front blade instead of a bucket (which few do) then tractors simply do not have the traction to push a front blade like that.... something that a bulldozer does with ease.
rScotty