Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,441  
Well, that was what I said in the post. :D It makes perfect sense to use renewables to make Hydrogen because it can be stored and used later.
Ah, so it is perfectly OK no matter the cost just so long as "renewables" are used?

The problem with hydrogen is that about 2x the amount of energy you can get out of it is used to split hydrogen from oxygen. Plus the cost of compressing hydrogen to 5,000-10,000 PSI in order to store in a reasonable volume. Or cryogenic at −252.8°C.

The only advantage is a lot of energy in a small volume which can be reloaded relatively quickly in a vehicle. Are we not continuously told of how wonderful a hydrogen power cell plus electric motor have no reciprocating parts? Conveniently forgets the compressor which packed the hydrogen into such volume? Lot of energy, cost of equipment, and maintenance. Just consider a scuba tank compressor?

For utility grade storage, batteries consume less resources and are more efficient.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,442  
The Tesla will draw whatever your EVSE says it can have. But you can override and set it to less than what the EVSE says is available.

On L2 charging the Model 3 Standard Range will not ask for more than 32A.

The Long Range Model 3 can ask for 48A on an L2 connection. Not sure the included Mobile Connector (Tesla EVSE with a smart plug adapter that signals possible current limits) is more than 32A because the NEMA 14-50 is limited to 40A continuous. First generation Mobile Connectors would run the full 40A of a NEMA 14-50 socket.

Recent Model S could ask for 72A.

My Model S will not ask for more than 40A. In 2013 a $3000 option added a second 40A charger in the car so it could L2 charge at 80A with a Tesla Wall Connector on a 100A circuit.

Tesla Mobile Connectors have a proprietary plug on the input side where a matching plug adapter is used. Can use a 120V plug adapter, or the popular electric dryer plug, or 14-50. The Mobile Connector knows the current limits for each style of plug but if you use a 14-50 plug adapter on a 40A circuit (it doesn't know what breaker you have installed) it would allow the full 40A which will trip your breaker. North America NEC permits only 80% of the breaker rating be used for 100% duty cycle.

The Tesla Wall Connector (hard wired) has a switch inside for the installer to indicate on what size circuit it is installed. It will then signal the vehicle accordingly. While the current WC hardware can do 72A on a 90A breaker it can be limited to most any of the popular breaker sizes under 90A. Plus it is smart enough if up to 4 similar WCs are on the same circuit they will coordinate to keep the total draw under 72A. This way you won't have to manually juggle which car is charging during the night.

Tesla Model 3 (SR+ at least) are limited to 32A draw so a 40A breaker is enough. If the plug is shared, you can tell it to use less and it will remember that setting for that location. For the same location, you can set maximum draw for 240V and 120V separately.

Reason I went with #8 wire size is because when passing the wire, I had to go between the drywall and joist (1x3 straps) and #6 would have been a too tight fit.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,443  
Tesla Model 3 (SR+ at least) are limited to 32A draw so a 40A breaker is enough. If the plug is shared, you can tell it to use less and it will remember that setting for that location.
While we commonly place multiple 120V outlets on one circuit that practice is not permitted for 240V outlets. Consumers are not trusted to be intelligent enough not to run two dryers at the same time on the same circuit. And for safety reasons the circuit is not to be sized 2x the load of one dryer.

The Tesla Wall Connector is a kind of exception, and not, because it is hard wired and all Tesla Wall Connectors on the circuit function together as a single device. If 2 Wall Connectors then the first car will be allowed all it wants up to the circuit limit. If a 2nd is connected before the first is finished then the first may get its allocation cut to make room for the 2nd.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,444  
Wow, don't know what to make of this. Here in Québec, the first 40 KWh 'for the day' is $0.06159 and above that it's $0.09502. There is also a base cost of $0.41168 per day. I've put the 'for the day' in quote because it basically is a flat rate for the first 40 KW time number of days in a billing cycle. So if your bill is for 60 days (usually around that number of days per billing cycle) and your consumption was not over 2,4 MW for that period, you only pay $0.06159 * the number of KW used. Above that 2.4 MW, you pay $147.82 + (usage above 2,400 KW * $0.09502).

For example, my last billing cycle that went over 2.4 MW was the May-June billing cycle. During that cycle, there was 57 days and I consumed 2,528 MW. So my bill was:

57*40*0.06159 = $140.43
(2,528-(57*40))*0.09502 = $23.56
57*0.41168=$23.47

Total of $187.46

I'm heating with electricity as well (baseboards) so that bill includes my heating (and water heating), although we don't heat much in May and even less in June. My worse billing cycles are between December and April. During that period, it's about $200 to $300 per month.
Interesting. My total consumption last month was 843 kwh. That's my only utility bill, which includes pumping and heating water, lighting, cooking, and AC through the hottest part of the summer. My bill was $97, including a $10 voluntary green energy surcharge. I have done extensive energy conservation work on this house over the years. Insulation - the gift that keeps on giving.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,446  
Electric furnace? These are the most efficient heating sources. More efficient than gas, much more than oil and incomparable to wood burning.
My post was about the UK having energy price hikes because they are becoming dependent on wind power that is not always available.

If the wind is not blowing, they are having to turn on coal and gas power plants to produce electricity. At some point, with the closure of these plants, how will they generate power to heat peoples homes if the wind does not blow?

Our wood stove heats the house far better than our heat pump. Some places in Ireland still heat with wood and peat but the government is restricting these sources of heat.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,447  
Ah, so it is perfectly OK no matter the cost just so long as "renewables" are used?

The problem with hydrogen is that about 2x the amount of energy you can get out of it is used to split hydrogen from oxygen. Plus the cost of compressing hydrogen to 5,000-10,000 PSI in order to store in a reasonable volume. Or cryogenic at −252.8°C.

The only advantage is a lot of energy in a small volume which can be reloaded relatively quickly in a vehicle. Are we not continuously told of how wonderful a hydrogen power cell plus electric motor have no reciprocating parts? Conveniently forgets the compressor which packed the hydrogen into such volume? Lot of energy, cost of equipment, and maintenance. Just consider a scuba tank compressor?

For utility grade storage, batteries consume less resources and are more efficient.
No, cost has to be considered, but the people pushing these mandates don't consider the cost, or they make it up.

But if one has a way to generate power, and there is a surplus of that power, using it to make and store hydrogen might make sense. It does get down to costs. My example of the Shetland Islands shows that if one has amble renewable power, one can use it to generate hydrogen. Which is what they do. Is it worth the cost? That is a different conversation. :D On some of the islands in Scotland and Ireland, the cost to run renewables is certainly worth it.

Batteries are VERY expensive and have a lifetime. Lead acid batteries, depending on the type, might get 500-1,100 cycles, before needing to be replaced. LiFePo batteries might go as high as 5,000 cycles depending on how deeply they are discharged/cycled. Most LiFePo battery makers are talking about 2,000-3,000 cycles.

We have been looking at using LiFePo batteries on a boat. Just to run the power needs on the boat can be done with a solar power. If one has say 1,000-2,000 watts of solar panels, one might be able to actually cook with electricity. LiFePo batteries to run such a system might be as low as $5,000 depending on how much power one is consuming and storing.

However, if one wants to have enough battery capacity to last 2-3 days without wind or solar power, be able to cook with electricity, and use limited HVAC on the boat, the price is up around $20,000-30,000. That price does not include BMSes, solar panels, wind generator(s), inverters, etc. On a boat, with a large enough battery bank to minimize cycling, the LiFePo batteries might/should last decades.

To do the same with a house would be even more expensive. Don't even want to think of the battery cost to be able to run the HVAC. It would be mind boggling. Not sure many people could run the HVAC using power from solar panels on the house.

Having batteries to store this on a grid scale would be hugely expensive. Telsa and Australia have built some. But even their huge battery systems will only supply power for 30 minutes to a million homes.

Energy storage is a problem as is transmission.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,448  
Heat pumps are about 350% efficient, but the installation costs can be substantial. In cold areas where geothermal heat pumps are required, installation costs are high.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,449  
Heating the house?? Take a look at Drakes Landing development.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #4,450  
Energy storage is a problem as is transmission.

Later,
Dan
Efficiency-wise, what tends to get ignored are the losses inherent in the electricity-grid. Until low-cost superconductors are produced in volume, or Ohm's Law gets repealed, they won't go away. My utility uses their Losses as an excuse to bump up my bill - I pay for more kwh than I actually use. That ^ excuse to crank up my bill, actually irritates me the least of all the fairy-tale fees they fabricate, as it's based on actual physics....

As with your A/C needs, Heat is non-optional up here a good chunk of the year, and similarly unrealistic to provide totally with alt nrg.

Rgds, D.
 
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