Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[bnold]

Grid tied solar with no battery backup is one of the great mysteries of life.

I mean, what is the point.

Uh, lower electric bills. Not much mystery.

Here is my electric usage from utility last week. 90-100 highs in Texas, decent sized house and shop nicely air conditioned

View attachment 751074

Have a generator for backup power needs (extremely rare event), the ROI on a battery backup PV system is much longer (or never depending).

 

[bnold]

You could install a transfer switch and run a generator to heat up the inverter. It's not going to run without a 60 hz sync signal.

Requires some additional controls between generator and inverter, but yes is possible.

Must maintain a minimum load on the generator, most generators cannot handle excess PV load (damage to generator will result from more PV generation than demand)

 

[Snobdds]

Uh, lower electric bills. Not much mystery.

Here is my electric usage from utility last week. 90-100 highs in Texas, decent sized house and shop nicely air conditioned

View attachment 751074

Have a generator for backup power needs (extremely rare event), the ROI on a battery backup PV system is much longer (or never depending).

After what, 50 years the break even point finally emerges?

 

[MossRoad]

An 89% adaptation only results in a decrease of 50%.

Again, demand did not see an equal drop proportional to the adaptation. If this relationship holds true, fossil fuels are here to stay, regardless of a EV strategy.

Don't get bogged down by the numbers, the chart shows more than anything that cars use little fossil fuels in an economy's bigger picture.

It says EVs make up a large percentage of new vehicle purchases. It didn't say that anyone got rid of any gasoline powered cars at the same ratio.

Geeze. There's no way you'd see an equal drop proportional to the adaptation, ever, unless people traded their gas cars for EVs on a one-to-one ratio.

 

[MossRoad]

After what, 50 years the break even point finally emerges?

Several people here on TBN reported break even period under 10 years.

 

[bnold]

After what, 50 years the break even point finally emerges?

7 years for break even at time of initial install.

Electricity rates went up at my electric coop around 50% in April of this year with all the energy cost increases, hopefully this increase is short lived, but if it is maintained at this high level ROI will reduce to 4-5 year range.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/...this-could-mean-for-north-texans/2987577/?amp

Mine went from 9.5-10c/kWh to 14.5c/kWh in April.

 

[Snobdds]

It says EVs make up a large percentage of new vehicle purchases. It didn't say that anyone got rid of any gasoline powered cars at the same ratio.

Geeze. There's no way you'd see an equal drop proportional to the adaptation, ever, unless people traded their gas cars for EVs on a one-to-one ratio.

Conjecture...

It could also imply people bought EV's and then kept them parked and kept driving their old gas burners.

That graph only says one thing. Demand did not drop even with a high adaptation rate to EV's. I guess people like old and familiar sure things.

 

[Snobdds]

7 years for break even at time of initial install.

Electricity rates went up at my electric coop around 50% in April of this year with all the energy cost increases, hopefully this increase is short lived, but if it is maintained at this high level ROI will reduce to 4-5 year range.

Electric Rates Are Going Up: What This Could Mean for North Texans

Mine went from 9.5-10c/kWh to 14.5c/kWh in April.

If your array is so big and payback period is so short, why not store this free energy in a usable battery, rather than use the grid as a battery and loose access when you need it most?

I just don't see the point of grid tied solar without a battery bank. It's just producing cheap power for the electric company.

 

[bnold]

If your array is so big and payback period is so short, why not store this free energy in a usable battery, rather than use the grid as a battery and loose access when you need it most?

I just don't see the point of grid tied solar without a battery bank. It's just producing cheap power for the electric company.

I’m not sure how you are missing the point.
Size of the system is really irrelevant.

The energy is not free. The PV system has a cost.

Battery bank would double the cost of the system (at least) and likely have more continual cost and batteries have a more limited life span than PV panels and inverter.

There are some cases where batteries make more sense with utility peak rates (doesn’t apply to me) and I guess some backup power means, but it is generally a very small amount of backup. I can store far more power in diesel for the generator far more cheaply and far more reliably than trying to store in batteries for ‘utility outages’.

My power company pays me the exact same rate for power I supply to them as they supply to me. In my case it is very simple settled on a monthly basis.

Consumed power - generated power = delta * rate + base charge = Bill.

In my case the bill can’t be less than $0, so i sized my system accordingly to not provide the utility with ‘free power’. I should always have a +000kwh bill from my utility due to how their rules are setup and how I sized my system accordingly.

Others on this site have a settle up period at the end of the year which is a better deal than I have.

Seems maybe you don’t understand the economics around a grid tied system are are quick to bash what you don’t understand.

I didn’t forgo a battery system due to any other reason than the benefits for my situation come nowhere near the cost of such a system. A battery system would never pay for itself in my current situation with my utility.

 

[Snobdds]

I’m not sure how you are missing the point.
Size of the system is really irrelevant.

The energy is not free. The PV system has a cost.

Battery bank would double the cost of the system (at least) and likely have more continual cost and batteries have a more limited life span than PV panels and inverter.

There are some cases where batteries make more sense with utility peak rates (doesn’t apply to me) and I guess some backup power means, but it is generally a very small amount of backup. I can store far more power in diesel for the generator far more cheaply and far more reliably than trying to store in batteries for ‘utility outages’.

My power company pays me the exact same rate for power I supply to them as they supply to me. In my case it is very simple settled on a monthly basis.

Consumed power - generated power = delta * rate + base charge = Bill.

In my case the bill can’t be less than $0, so i sized my system accordingly to not provide the utility with ‘free power’. I should always have a +000kwh bill from my utility due to how their rules are setup and how I sized my system accordingly.

Others on this site have a settle up period at the end of the year which is a better deal than I have.

Seems maybe you don’t understand the economics around a grid tied system are are quick to bash what you don’t understand.

I didn’t forgo a battery system due to any other reason than the benefits for my situation come nowhere near the cost of such a system. A battery system would never pay for itself in my current situation with my utility.

you were just bragging how short your payback period is, to now say adding batteries throws off the economics of the matter to the point you won't consider them.

Yes I question, not bash and there is a difference, the logic of going through the process of generating electricity to only put it back into the grid at net consumption. I know the sun is not shining everyday, so without batteries, you have to somehow make extra power those sunny days to make up for the cloudy days. Batteries solve the problem of clouds.