Home Building Questions - Propane - All electric - Fireplace

[Larry Caldwell]

Hi Dodgeman - I posted one in another thread - here it is below - you should be able to copy and paste this into excel. You also need to input your local cost for the heat type - this is what the various fuels cost here this year in NH.

Also, you can add a load column to this BTU/Hr expected demand which can give you a rough order of magnitude cost to operate for a day.

FUEL	ENERGY CONTENT		UNIT PRICE		HEAT CONVERSION EFFICIENCY		COST PER MILLION BTU
Kerosene	130,000​	BTU/gal	$4.05​	/gal	91	%	$34.23
#2 Fuel Oil	135,000​	BTU/gal	$4.00​	/gal	89		$33.29
Propane	92,000​	BTU/gal	$2.69​	/gal	94		$31.11
Natural Gas	100,000​	BTU/therm	$1.79​	/therm*	94		$19.04
Electricity - Resistance	3,412​	BTU/kWh	$0.34​	/kWh**	100		$99.65
Electricity - Heat Pump	11,945​	BTU/kWh	$0.34​	/kWh**	100		$28.46
Coal	13,200​	BTU/lb	$300.00​	/ton	75		$15.15
Firewood-Hardwood	25,000,000​	BTU/cord	$375.00​	/cord	60		$25.00
Wood Pellets	8,200	BTU/lb	$350.00	/ton	85		$25.11
Shelled Corn	6,800​	BTU/lb	$6.00​	/bushel	75		$21.01

Bad numbers. A heat pump is 300% efficient.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I have a 10' 6" long sheet metal break brake whatever. It's for bending aluminum trim coil for siding. You can bend metal building sheathing on it too, but that's the biggest task it will handle. It is light enough I can load alone. Have one for steel too, but it is way less portable.

Off topic, but you can build a small sheet metal break with a couple hinges and some angle iron. It's a quick one day project.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Off topic, but you can build a small sheet metal break with a couple hinges and some angle iron. It's a quick one day project.

I had one that was 12' long and made out of total rail road track. Jaws and clamp, throat. You might could bend some thin things with door hinges. I have a little one out of angle iron. Had one made out of road grader blades. It worked pretty good.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Don't overlook passive solar heat. I have multiple large windows on the south side of my house, shaded by an overhang in the summer. In the winter, the sun shines on a ceramic tile floor backed by cement board with insulation under it. Call it 2-3 tons of thermal mass. Modern low-E glass cuts solar gain quite a bit, but a sunny day will keep the house warm even in freezing weather. For night or nasty time, we have honeycomb cellular blinds that add about another R-5 to the windows.

A gas log insert will radiate some heat, but the fan has to run to heat more than a few feet in front. A transfer switch and small generator would get you by. If you are going one propane appliance, go with a propane water heater too. I live in a mild climate similar to yours, and a conventional heat pump functions very efficiently. The propane backup would only come on during very cold weather, and the AC is worth the price of admission. Plumb a stub out toward the future patio/deck and you can run your BBQ and gas fire pit from the main tank too.

Your choices will depend on whether you are going to live there long term, or sell it after a few years. If you are thinking short term, don't build options that will just confuse the next owner. If it's going to be your forever home, make it as self-sufficient and stable as possible. If you have watched the last couple of years you have seen the US infrastructure stumble pretty badly. How would living there be if the electricity went out and stayed out for an extended period? How would you do if you had to wait 2 months for a propane delivery? Tornados are one thing, whackos sabotaging power substations and blowing up pipelines are another. Your home is your castle.

 

[ponytug]

Don't forget earthquakes!

All the best, Peter

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Why anyone would build a new home and install a conventional style HP is beyond me.
There are better systems

Feel free to share your ideas on the better systems. That's why I started this post.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Don't overlook passive solar heat. I have multiple large windows on the south side of my house, shaded by an overhang in the summer. In the winter, the sun shines on a ceramic tile floor backed by cement board with insulation under it. Call it 2-3 tons of thermal mass. Modern low-E glass cuts solar gain quite a bit, but a sunny day will keep the house warm even in freezing weather. For night or nasty time, we have honeycomb cellular blinds that add about another R-5 to the windows.

A gas log insert will radiate some heat, but the fan has to run to heat more than a few feet in front. A transfer switch and small generator would get you by. If you are going one propane appliance, go with a propane water heater too. I live in a mild climate similar to yours, and a conventional heat pump functions very efficiently. The propane backup would only come on during very cold weather, and the AC is worth the price of admission. Plumb a stub out toward the future patio/deck and you can run your BBQ and gas fire pit from the main tank too.

Your choices will depend on whether you are going to live there long term, or sell it after a few years. If you are thinking short term, don't build options that will just confuse the next owner. If it's going to be your forever home, make it as self-sufficient and stable as possible. If you have watched the last couple of years you have seen the US infrastructure stumble pretty badly. How would living there be if the electricity went out and stayed out for an extended period? How would you do if you had to wait 2 months for a propane delivery? Tornados are one thing, whackos sabotaging power substations and blowing up pipelines are another. Your home is your castle.

We are planning on this being here for the long haul. We are building it to have shade on the windows in the summer. Energy efficiency in the summer is a bigger need here than in winter.

I'm thinking more and more about just doing all electric with a pellet stove. I am going to have a transfer switch installed during the build. We will probably end up getting something like a 10kva gas generator just in case. We shouldn't need it very often.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Don't forget earthquakes!

All the best, Peter

Earthquakes are not an issue here. I'm glad we don't have to prepare for those. But we do have to be on the lookout for tornadoes for several months out of the year.

 

[RSKY]

I do have a teenager that makes it her job to run the house out of hot water on every shower. For whatever reason her and her mom both are not happy unless actual fire comes out of the shower head with the water.

I had two of those at one time. Not only long hot showers but had to put in a gravel bed for the washing machine and two of the three showers in the house. All the water overwhelmed the septic system. We also switched to a front loading washing machine to cut water usage.

The problems a being a dad with daughters could fill an encyclopedia sized book.

RSKY

 

[coldsteelva]

Earthquakes are not an issue here. I'm glad we don't have to prepare for those. But we do have to be on the lookout for tornadoes for several months out of the year.

Since you're just beginning this process, have you also considered an integrated safe-room, storm shelter, refuge in preparation for those tornadoes?