Yesterday. Would you buy and EV?

[LittleBill21]

yea, I'm done. I don't care enough to argue with you anymore.

 

[nickfank]

I use about .08/mile of fuel in our car and I didn't have to install and buy some heavy duty wiring to the garage.
My concern is that there is no free market for electricity to your house, so when the prices start going up due to higher demand, there is no way to shop for cheaper home electricity. Solar is not an option here.

You're correct, I did have to install a 30 Amp circuit for my garage. That and the charger ran about $400, and serves two EVs. Painful, but not too bad in the long run.

Yeah, I can't predict how much electricity will go up. That's a reasonable concern. I also can't predict the cost of gas. I judge that both are an equal risk and observe that gas historically, gas & diesel have gone up faster than electricity. Is there a free market for gasoline? Really?

 

[nickfank]

I also noticed you didn't mention the 2500+ install cost for most people to support stage 2 charging.

let me be clear, I want a EV since i don't live near gas stations, but the ROI simply doesn't pan out for me.

My level 2 charger cost $180. (I'm guessing that's what you mean by stage 2.) I don't need more than that for my purpose. Wiring the 30 Amp outlet for it cost me about $70 in parts, but I expect I'd have paid around $400 to have it done professionally. It's a cost, but not outrageous for keeping 2 EVs charged and never stopping at a gas station again.

If the ROI doesn't work out for you, that's fine. If you just don't want one, that's fine too. I'm not questioning your personal decision.

What I'm having trouble with is the notion that somehow you're the expert, and questioning the knowledge and decisions of a guy who's been driving EVs for years.

 

[LittleBill21]

My level 2 charger cost $180. (I'm guessing that's what you mean by stage 2.) I don't need more than that for my purpose. Wiring the 30 Amp outlet for it cost me about $70 in parts, but I expect I'd have paid around $400 to have it done professionally. It's a cost, but not outrageous for keeping 2 EVs charged and never stopping at a gas station again.

If the ROI doesn't work out for you, that's fine. If you just don't want one, that's fine too. I'm not questioning your personal decision.

What I'm having trouble with is the notion that somehow you're the expert, and questioning the knowledge and decisions of a guy who's been driving EVs for years.

I have worked with alternative energy for over 25 years, I have literally designed bms systems for off grid applications. Pretty sure that puts me in the above average category. But you own a EV so i guess that makes you the true expect.... GL with your ev. This will be my last comment in this thread.

 

[tacticalturnip]

I don't want an EV at this time, I don't want to be regulated into one, and being told consistently how great they are just pushes me further from them. You know what I'd like? I'd like to see more investment into hybrids, I want my F-350 to get 22 miles per gallon instead of 12. Of course, my F-350 doesn't exactly jive with the direction things are going. Nor does anything that would allow one some autonomy away from society, like the ICE does. If my truck was a plug-in hybrid I could take advantage of the grid as needed, and head out into the middle of nowhere with a full tank and a few jerry cans when I'm done with the world. Instead, I can go **** myself.

I liked electric cars, until it became obvious where the political wind was blowing. Technology is great, but politicians are wretched.

 

[Pixguy]

I don't want an EV at this time, I don't want to be regulated into one, and being told consistently how great they are just pushes me further from them. You know what I'd like? I'd like to see more investment into hybrids, I want my F-350 to get 22 miles per gallon instead of 12. Of course, my F-350 doesn't exactly jive with the direction things are going. Nor does anything that would allow one some autonomy away from society, like the ICE does. If my truck was a plug-in hybrid I could take advantage of the grid as needed, and head out into the middle of nowhere with a full tank and a few jerry cans when I'm done with the world. Instead, I can go **** myself.

I liked electric cars, until it became obvious where the political wind was blowing. Technology is great, but politicians are wretched.

Like you, I want to choose what I want and will resist when the gubmint requires me to. The member who says don't buy one if you don't want one isn't paying attention to California's and other like nutty states 2035 requirements.

 

[nickfank]

I don't want an EV at this time, I don't want to be regulated into one, and being told consistently how great they are just pushes me further from them. You know what I'd like? I'd like to see more investment into hybrids, I want my F-350 to get 22 miles per gallon instead of 12. Of course, my F-350 doesn't exactly jive with the direction things are going. Nor does anything that would allow one some autonomy away from society, like the ICE does. If my truck was a plug-in hybrid I could take advantage of the grid as needed, and head out into the middle of nowhere with a full tank and a few jerry cans when I'm done with the world. Instead, I can go **** myself.

I liked electric cars, until it became obvious where the political wind was blowing. Technology is great, but politicians are wretched.

Oddly, a lot of my motivation for getting an EV matches right up with your interest in autonomy.

If I'm using gas or diesel, I'm dependent on a highly regulated and fragile infrastructure. A war on the other side of the world or a political confrontation here can suddenly double fuel costs. Jerry cans are great, and I've got a couple on the old land rover ...but they eventually have to be refilled.

There's no way I could have my own oil well & refinery, but for a reasonable investment, I can install a solar array and significantly reduce my dependency on the people who do own wells & refineries. It's different technology, but nothing a competent mechanic can't figure out.

I'm not quite a tinfoil-hat prepper, but I'm uncomfortable being dependent on people who don't care about me. Anyone who uses gas or diesel unavoidably depends on corporations who only care about money and politicians who only care about power.

I guess I'm telling you that EVs are great, so maybe pushing you away from the idea... But I hope knowing that people who just want to be left alone are choosing EVs because of the independence it gives us might be a new perspective.

 

[tacticalturnip]

You make a good argument, and long term the idea is appealing; though I don't feel confident in my own ability to generate power at this time. It certainly is something I know I should look further into, but it seems rather daunting. My presumption is that with a plug-in hybrid one could get limited mobility with some form of mobile charging system, even if it was repulsively slow, is that right? If not, could it be modified by a competent engineer/electrician?

I don't understand why, for all intents and purposes, the plug-in hybrid has been ignored in favor of full-fledged EV's. Especially given their flexibility.

Can you say diesel-electric pickup?

Lastly, after thinking about it, I think a hybrid F-350 would probably get closer to 30 miles per gallon; we'll say 28. My truck gets miserable gas mileage, but it's a 6.2 liter gas job with a 6 speed transmission, and 4.30 rear axle ratio. A 2022 F-350 with the new 7.3 liter V8, 10 speed automatic, and 3.55 rear, can apparently manage 16. So lets toss a plug-in hybrid system in there, why not? Would such a thing shatter the universe as we know it?

 

[Williy]

Say an ev cost $40k I purchase my daily
beater for $5k I don't change the oil
until I get 15k to 20k miles I only drive approx
7.5k a year and the beater gets approx 28 mpg
so that would be $35k to spend on fuel etc I
would probably be approx $20k still in pocket
EV's tranny flush, radiator flush, battery replacement
12 volt, wiper blades, window washer just a few
items that need maintiance on not to mention the
cost of the charging system you need at home
and most people can't or don't know how to install
a charging system for an ev. Also most diesel engines
get 400k to 500k plus miles before they need repair
and most ev's only have an 8 year battery warranty
but the 12 volt battery is the same as a car or truck

willy

 

[nickfank]

So lets toss a plug-in hybrid system in there, why not? Would such a thing shatter the universe as we know it?

I agree. I looked all over for a plug-in hybrid before we went full EV. Basically, I wanted to be able to do my daily commute on electricity but be able to take off on a long trip with gas or diesel. The old Chevy Volt almost worked for that, but when I did the math, it didn't have quite enough plug-in range or fuel economy to save money in the long run. Our solution is 2 EVs for commuting and hanging onto one big gas car for road trips. (And a barn roof covered with solar panels.)

The new Toyota Tundra is close to what you're thinking of. They added an electric motor and a battery to their transmission, and the result is slightly better efficiency and significantly better low-end torque. Seems like the obvious next step is to do away with the transmission so they essentially have a setup like a diesel locomotive. (Old technology, but obviously reliable.) If they get to that point, adding batteries gets you a plug-in hybrid truck.

A thought about politics... I simply don't let political loyalties drive my decisions. Liberal & moderate politicians are pushing electric. The MAGA gang is pushing fossil fuels just as hard. While some folks are feeling rebellious about the current administration promoting electric, I feel just as rebellious about being told I should support the fat cats who run oil companies. I don't believe for one second that British Petroleum or Exxon cares about preserving my personal freedom. On the other hand, neither do the manufacturers of solar systems. But... I can buy a solar array and from that point forward, it's my power source to control as I see fit. To me, that's the kind of freedom and independence that once made America great.

I'll just do what I think is right, regardless of politics. Usually that means whatever gives my family the most actual security and freedom from dependence on people I don't have any reason to trust. <Climbs down off of soapbox.>