Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[Grumpycat]

Gotta love the cell tower NIMBYs, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant. I don't know where you get the idea that there are people at these sites at all hours of the day & night. I spent 25 years working on communications gear, much of it installed at cell sites, and months could go by where no one visited a given site at all. Most of these towers are in relatively isolated areas, on mountain/hilltops to get the best coverage. They don't cause cancer either.

One thing I valued when purchasing 572 acres was how I had cell service everywhere I checked on the property but in one hollow. There are some places I can see the 300'-ish tower a mile and a half away.

 

[Grumpycat]

Some people say that I am being subsidized by other electric users. I wonder if those same people think it’s OK for gas & oil, pharmaceuticals and farmers to be subsidized by MY tax dollars.

If you get parity pricing for grid tie then you are being subsidized by a Progressive Left Public Service Commision.

Parity pricing is common in California, is where you get paid the same price to put a kWh in the grid as they charge you to take one out.

When Congress finally passed a law mandating utilities support grid tie generation they wisely stipulated the utility only had to pay the audited incremental cost of generation. So if you provide a kWh they don't have to generate they only have to pay you what they saved, not what they would have sold the kWh for loaded with the cost of distribution. For TVA that is $0.015/kWh. A penny and a half. Fuel surcharges also get added, and are much greater than the incremental cost of generation.

Some utilities (such as Alabama Power) have figured out how to add a monthly cost of connection, nominally for maintaining the actual wiring grid. This connection fee is so great (even with Alabama Power's $0.025/kWh incremental cost of generation) that there are fewer than 200 PV solar connections in the Alabama Power system.

 

[Grumpycat]

I feel the same way about using good land for anything that takes it out of production: housing subdivisions, manufacturing, retail, etc…. But we do honor private property rights in this country, so good farmland is converted to these uses every day.

"Good land" is taken out of one production and placed in a higher value production. If there wasn't more money in it the land owner would not be doing it.

 

[Grumpycat]

I don’t think wind farms or solar farms really look pretty but I also don’t think they will seriously devalue the surrounding ground.

I would agree wind farms are are nuisance. Have you ever stood outside amongst operating wind turbines? North of Elwood, IN, is the largest wind farm I know of. Park beside the road and step out of the car. The incessant low level hum would drive me mad. Madder.

 

[jyoutz]

"Good land" is taken out of one production and placed in a higher value production. If there wasn't more money in it the land owner would not be doing it.

From an economic perspective you are correct. I tend to define productivity based on natural resources, soil productivity, etc..,

 

[jyoutz]

I would agree wind farms are are nuisance. Have you ever stood outside amongst operating wind turbines? North of Elwood, IN, is the largest wind farm I know of. Park beside the road and step out of the car. The incessant low level hum would drive me mad. Madder.

All of west Texas, from north to south is one giant wind farm. Hundred of miles. I assume they are used to the sound.

 

[Grumpycat]

From an economic perspective you are correct. I tend to define productivity based on natural resources, soil productivity, etc..,

So, one could argue the solar farm is preserving soil underneath for future generations.

Your problem is that you expect others to honor your economic value system. The magic behind any healthy economic system is that one party values something more than another, and somehow makes that added value work. You raise cattle, then somebody comes along who values your ready-for-market cattle more than you do. You sell, and start over with calves.

I haven't seen it implemented but if the panels were 6' off the ground one might desire cattle grazing between the rows to keep the grass trimmed. Grass yield will not be as great as an open field, but "so what? resources being put to use."

 

[two_bit_score]

Do you need a filtration mask to breathe outside like they use in China?

 

[Grumpycat]

Gotta keep supporting the Chinese mineral mining........

That is only because that market is gifted to China by our government. We have all the minerals and not-so-rare Rare Earths, but are forbidden to use the cleanest mining and refining processes known to utilize.

 

[Grumpycat]

Our issue here (and why we successfully fought and won over a massive solar installation was), here in SE Michigan, the farm ground is very fertile and productive and a solar install would take X number of acres out of production. Real simple.

Why is that anyone's business but the land owner? You have no right to demand that I produce crops on my land, or that I produce the crops you desire. Else, there is no private property.

 

[Grumpycat]

You take enough fertile land out of production and at some point people starve or have to revert to the 'Soylent Green' existence.

Then if only we had a free market the market forces would make a correction. But if we have a government dictated market who picks winners and losers on some arbitrary value system, then we get stuck with a "solution" which is always wrong.

Is wrong to say the "solution" is an EV. Is wrong to say the "solution" is ethanol. Is just as wrong to say a man can not elect to grow a crop of kWh from sunlight as it is to say he must grow any other approved crop.

 

[Grumpycat]

The tornado question is pretty smart because you have to wonder how far a tornado could blow solar panels and what kind of damage could be caused? A flying solar panel could be lethal.

What object "flying through the air" in a tornado is not lethal? Plenty of tornado stories of golf balls from driving ranges being found driven through concrete walls.

 

[lman]

Then if only we had a free market the market forces would make a correction. But if we have a government dictated market who picks winners and losers on some arbitrary value system, then we get stuck with a "solution" which is always wrong.

Is wrong to say the "solution" is an EV. Is wrong to say the "solution" is ethanol. Is just as wrong to say a man can not elect to grow a crop of kWh from sunlight as it is to say he must grow any other approved crop.

I guess we need to make some changes then.

“The current administration and the EPA are proposing unrealistic emissions standards to try to push the public further than they are willing to go. This plan is totally disconnected by the reality of our supply chain and energy infrastructure, and will result in the U.S. depending even more on China for raw rare earth minerals that the Biden administration doesn’t allow to be mined here. I ran a shipping and logistics business for 37 years, so I know this kind of overbearing government overreach will make everything more expensive.” – Mike Braun

 

[Grumpycat]

If you buy Tier 1 equipment the inverters are good for 20 years.

That is the problem with non-Tesla DC charging stations. The operators bought low-bid hardware which has proven unreliable.

Tesla Superchargers are highly reliable. Electrify America (the golden child of VW diesel fines) is not.

 

[Grumpycat]

I guess we need to make some changes then.

“The current administration and the EPA are proposing unrealistic emissions standards to try to push the public further than they are willing to go. This plan is totally disconnected by the reality of our supply chain and energy infrastructure, and will result in the U.S. depending even more on China for raw rare earth minerals that the ***** administration doesn’t allow to be mined here. I ran a shipping and logistics business for 37 years, so I know this kind of overbearing government overreach will make everything more expensive.” – Mike Braun

Agree, the government is totally in the wrong here.

 

[Grumpycat]

There is something about land growing grass, trees, livestock, or crops that's just more appealing than it being covered in asphalt or solar panels.

Why is it for you to decide what I do with my land?

 

[Grumpycat]

Just in the past few weeks we have seen devastating tornado damage across several states. With the increasing number of solar farms we probably will see soon what happens when a tornado rips through one. Looking at the severe damage caused just in the past few weeks I seriously doubt these solar panels will stay put no matter what wind ratings they have. When you have 50-100 acres of solar panels you could be looking at 2000 panels per acre or 100,000 to 200,000 panels.

What happens when/if a tornado rips through a gas-fired electric power plant? How is one different from the other?

 

[TN8Man]

Damage occurs and power goes out but at least they don't have million of flying guillotine's.

The Flying Guillotine's Greatest Hits​

 

[Hay Dude]

Why will their property value go to nearly nothing? The solar farm will spoil the view they did not own?

You know the old adage about Real Estate
Location, Location, Location.

Locating next to a 100 acre heat sink with enough mirrors to blind Godzilla isn’t considered a good location.

 

[Hay Dude]

Gotta love the cell tower NIMBYs, never let the facts get in the way of a good rant. I don't know where you get the idea that there are people at these sites at all hours of the day & night. I spent 25 years working on communications gear, much of it installed at cell sites, and months could go by where no one visited a given site at all. Most of these towers are in relatively isolated areas, on mountain/hilltops to get the best coverage. They don't cause cancer either.

Cell phone towers are about to go the way of the coal fired power plant.

Elon Musk told me so.

And I believe him. I’m pushing most of my poker chips towards him on this venture.