Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[Hay Dude]

How hypocritical it is to buy Chinese products mined with diesel fuel and coal power, built sometimes by slave labor, then shipped to the USA in smoke belching ships for 6,000 miles?

I crack up at Chinese made solar panels and batteries (or anything else) being labeled as “green”.
They are about as “green” as a nugget of bituminous coal and about as ethically made as a plantation making cotton in the civil war south.

 

[jcman]

This is another example of NIMBY when we really need to do more Yes In My Back Yard (YIMBY) if the world is going to solve the current climate crisis. In Thurston County Washington I was on a committee that was reviewing how to rezone arable lands so that they remain farmable. We looked at buying out development rights, transferring development rights and other options. Biggest problem was how does the county pay for the changes so it doesn't become "taking of property without fair payment"? Perhaps it would behoove a person in this situation to negotiate some of the benefits of solar so their electric bill is either reduced or eliminated. I have a covered arena with a 32 X 144 foot south facing half which would be perfect for a solar project. Problem is the power company will only reimburse me for the electricity that I use and won't buy the surplus at wholesale rates. Cuts off their noses despite their face IMO.

 

[jcman]

Charles,
I know you weren't replying to me, but I might just have some of the info you were requesting. First, I can get citations stating wildlife deaths caused by wind AND citations that state the opposite - therefore, research/citations in this case is probably useless. I can say however, when I lived near a large corporate wind farm there were workers that went out every shift picking up dead birds. I do Not have an actual number/day and I would doubt you would ever get an accurate count because wind (and solar) are the green babies and therefore can do no wrong. Case in point, I was on my tractor several years ago (next to the aforementioned wind farm) and inadvertently chopped up a bald eagle while cutting hay - made a h*ll of a mess. While I was cleaning out the cutter an inspector from the wind farm saw me and turned me in to the powers to be. Next thing I know game & fish, BLM, and several other fed agencies were knocking on my door wanting to charge me with killing our national bird. Long story short, before I went to court, I noticed that the wind farm had several killed bald eagles on their property around the bases of the generators - I took pictures.

In court the feds wanted me locked up and a huge fine imposed on me because I didn't see the eagle I chopped up. I countered that the wind farm was killing a far greater number of eagles than I did and they weren't getting fined/punished. The feds asked me for a citation to prove that and I showed them the pictures and asked if it wasn't possible the wind turbine killed the one I chopped up and flung it into my field. They confiscated my pictures and negatives and let me go with a warning. The next week the fencing between my land and the wind farm grew to over 15 feet tall (not sure how any wildlife that made it on their property ever made it out) and became a privacy fence - I'm guessing so I couldn't take anymore pictures. I continued to see inspectors running around in their trucks several times a day - my guess was they were still picking up dead birds.

Second, what exactly is wrong with nuclear plants? Clean energy, doesn't take up nearly as much room/land per KW, is safer and more economical than most other generation methods. Sure there is the storage/disposal of spent rods, but those rods are not much worse (if at all) than the disposal of solar panels.

You can check previous posts I've made in many different areas/topics here on TBN when it comes to green energy. I keep asking about these questions and all I get is double talk. So I'll throw it back at you for citations on disposal issues and carbon emissions the Chinese emit during the mining of component parts/minerals with solar as well as a cross tabulation of statistical evidence as it pertains to bird kills on wind farms and how they mitigate the killings as well as the statistical evidence surrounding the fear (and the misinformation) surrounding nuclear energy.

If you still have time left on your hands, how about statistical information on hydro or geothermal wind/solar.

Check out this article about a large lithium deposit in Wyoming. New Wyoming Lithium Deposit could Meet all U.S. Demand | OilPrice.com.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Why are we moving in this direction? Right now the electric grid is fine. The idea is getting away from fossil fuels but no one looks at the big picture and considers every aspect. Here are a few things to consider:
Efficiency. What's the most efficient way to produce electricity? It's hydroelectric at 85-90%.
Solar is not that efficient.
Enrichment. Do we want to enrich China...a communist enemy?
Environment. We want to get away from fossil fuels because of pollution while cutting 1000's acres trees and manufacturing panels which uses how much petroleum? That in itself creates how much pollution and CO2?
Add to all this all associated materials: inverters, transformers, sub stations, transmission lines...list goes on and on.
Spending $billions-$trillions for a cleaner planet. Really? Who believes that?
It's complete insanity.

 

[Hay Dude]

Check out this article about a large lithium deposit in Wyoming. New Wyoming Lithium Deposit could Meet all U.S. Demand | OilPrice.com.

Encouraging. Now would be the time to do it. The greens will trash anything to get their Lithium. Anything. Even China.

I just hope it’s not a piece of land the Chinese bought!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hay Dude]

Why are we moving in this direction? Right now the electric grid is fine. The idea is getting away from fossil fuels but no one looks at the big picture and considers every aspect. Here are a few things to consider:
Efficiency. What's the most efficient way to produce electricity? It's hydroelectric at 85-90%.
Solar is not that efficient.
Enrichment. Do we want to enrich China...a communist enemy?
Environment. We want to get away from fossil fuels because of pollution while cutting 1000's acres trees and manufacturing panels which uses how much petroleum? That in itself creates how much pollution and CO2?
Add to all this all associated materials: inverters, transformers, sub stations, transmission lines...list goes on and on.
Spending $billions-$trillions for a cleaner planet. Really? Who believes that?
It's complete insanity.

They whistle past the graveyard on all that stuff. Most solar panels, assembles, transformers, wiring and electrical infrastructure is made offshore, where it could be made in countries that want us destroyed, then shipped here thousands of miles on smoke belching ships.

That’s so sensible. So ethical. So “green”….

 

[bvanek]

Green energy is a scam and taking up large tracks of rural land for solar panels and windmills by using short term incentives is absolutely insane. People that buy into this have been duped and before they realize what hits them it will be too late. (the inevitable cost of this cart before the horse strategy will be astronomically huge).....We can't afford it PERIOD! Yes the global entries promoting this hoax will make billions of course. China will be the main benefactor, all at the expense of rural and middle class Americans.

CO2 is a non-toxic gas that only comprises about .003 to .007 % of our atmosphere. It is a necessary element for sustaining life and there is more natural C02 entering our atmosphere than man made emissions about 98.5 to 1.5 ratio.......satellite imagery shows a planet much greener in the past 100 years. The real science is not reaching the public. The earth has warmed 1.2 degrees in the last 250 years....yes there is climate change but man's contribution is minimal and 30 trillion solar panels and wind farms won't put a dent in C02 levels but certainly will modify our landscape to look more like man's folly.

Lets take this for what it is; a dumbed downed society that thinks C02 is responsible for climate change. If you take note of the science without an agenda you will find that rising C02 levels haven't made the planet warmer......it's the other way around .....rising temps releases much more natural C02 from the oceans, permafrost releasing methane, and dry land masses .......it's called the "carbon cycle" and it's why plants grow and why our atmosphere can sustain all forms of life. Don't confuse C02 levels with air and water polution. (Coal plants and toxic waste) mostly from China and other countries who won't be bothered by the same emission standards that is being dumped on politically tainted governments, sponsored by big corporate money, measured out for the welfare of a selected few.

Follow the money. Climate hysteria will be 10 times more toxic to our environment. Can we just pause and reflect on the economic collapse we are now experiencing because of instant forced compliance.....no science supports this action it is all about control..

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

A complete lack of logical rational thought.
Recently I was considering buying a Bobcat wheeled skid steer. The forks I could unload large bundles of hay and bucket for a couple excavation projects. My wife said whatever I want to do is fine...but how about getting frame & forks for the tractor I already have and pay my excavator friend & neighbor for the two projects. After all, the Bobcat is yet another piece of equipment to maintenance and then invest that money!
So forks are on order...made in USA.
If people would only look at things not react on impulse but reason things out.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Green energy is a scam and taking up large tracks of rural land for solar panels and windmills by using short term incentives is absolutely insane. People that buy into this have been duped and before they realize what hits them it will be too late. (the inevitable cost of this cart before the horse strategy will be astronomically huge).....We can't afford it PERIOD! Yes the global entries promoting this hoax will make billions of course. China will be the main benefactor, all at the expense of rural and middle class Americans.

CO2 is a non-toxic gas that only comprises about .003 to .007 % of our atmosphere. It is a necessary element for sustaining life and there is more natural C02 entering our atmosphere than man made emissions about 98.5 to 1.5 ratio.......satellite imagery shows a planet much greener in the past 100 years. The real science is not reaching the public. The earth has warmed 1.2 degrees in the last 250 years....yes there is climate change but man's contribution is minimal and 30 trillion solar panels and wind farms won't put a dent in C02 levels but certainly will modify our landscape to look more like man's folly.

Lets take this for what it is; a dumbed downed society that thinks C02 is responsible for climate change. If you take note of the science without an agenda you will find that rising C02 levels haven't made the planet warmer......it's the other way around .....rising temps releases much more natural C02 from the oceans, permafrost releasing methane, and dry land masses .......it's called the "carbon cycle" and it's why plants grow and why our atmosphere can sustain all forms of life. Don't confuse C02 levels with air and water solution. (Coal plants and toxic waste) mostly from China and other countries who won't be bothered by the same emission standards that is being dumped on politically tainted governments, sponsored by big corporate money, measured out for the welfare of a selected few.

Follow the money. Climate hysteria will be 10 times more toxic to our environment. Can we just pause and reflect on the economic collapse we are now experiencing because of instant forced compliance.....no science supports this action it is all about control..

Very well said.

 

[OzarkChris]

This is another example of NIMBY when we really need to do more Yes In My Back Yard (YIMBY) if the world is going to solve the current climate crisis. In Thurston County Washington I was on a committee that was reviewing how to rezone arable lands so that they remain farmable. We looked at buying out development rights, transferring development rights and other options. Biggest problem was how does the county pay for the changes so it doesn't become "taking of property without fair payment"? Perhaps it would behoove a person in this situation to negotiate some of the benefits of solar so their electric bill is either reduced or eliminated. I have a covered arena with a 32 X 144 foot south facing half which would be perfect for a solar project. Problem is the power company will only reimburse me for the electricity that I use and won't buy the surplus at wholesale rates. Cuts off their noses despite their face IMO.

As I mentioned earlier in this post, I put up a not so large solar system (16.5KW system) that is almost enough for the house (2400ft2) to come close to breaking even. That system has 40 panels (4x8') taking up ~1200ft2 (80 x 16') in one of my little meadows - I would probably need 4 more panels to cover 100% usage (96 x 16') but elec company will only allow 90% of highest month usage. This being said, I would venture to say regardless of their house orientation that A) Most big city folks don't have that much property on their lot after putting a house up and B) Most don't have houses that either have large enough roofs or roofs that can support that kind of weight (or both) and C) I still primarily use wood for my heating. I would guess that without the wood my electric bill would be much higher than it is now making the solar array much larger too!

So where do these commercial "Solar Generators" get put? Another big question is what kind of backup generator is necessary for night time use? Batteries surely won't suffice currently. I agree that battery technology has come a long way in the past 20 or so years but still, for an electric company to totally rely on "green energy" for its customers, you would probably be looking at $Millions if not $100's of millions for the batteries which will Also take up an exorbitant amount of space (and the batteries will have to be replaced every few years - causing even more toxic stuff needing places to be stored).