Modern Gas Tractor? What's the Chance?

[oldestgoat]

I think a lot of commercial buyers are reconsidering gas engines instead of diesels nowadays. Ford's 7.3 godzilla being one contender.

 

[mo1]

Ethanol fuel and infrequent use is the biggest hurdle. If it wasn’t for all the fuel storage problems gas tractors would probably already be available.

Gasoline tractors largely went away because they used a larger quantity of a more expensive fuel than diesel tractors did back in the day when both were still available. Anybody who's run a later six-cylinder gasoline tractor like a Deere 4020 and then it's diesel equivalent will vouch for that. Gasoline tractors basically disappeared in the '70s, although a few were still made for a little while longer. The '70s brought two fuel crises and the quality of gasoline suffered with the removal of lead during that time period. You also had diesels start to be turbocharged during that time as well, increasing power well above what you could get out of a naturally-aspirated gasser of a similar physical size. Yes, you can turbocharge a gasoline engine but it would have been ridiculously expensive to run in those days as you would basically have needed to run avgas or race gas to get enough octane to feed a heavily-worked turbocharged carbureted gas engine without it having massive detonation problems.

Ethanol and fuel storage issues are issues that people today have with small gasoline engines that are typically rarely used and go through comparatively little gasoline, those weren't the issues with gasoline tractors. Ethanol didn't show up in gasoline until decades after gasoline tractors bowed out.

Today, a gasoline tractor would make more sense than it would have in the 1970s as gasoline is cheaper than diesel and gasoline engines have a much easier time meeting emissions regs with simpler emissions equipment. Today you could also practically consider turbocharging a gasoline engine on a tractor to maintain the same engine size vs. power density as a turbocharged diesel as the fairly recently commercialized gasoline direct injection setups allow for running a whole lot more compression ratio or turbocharger boost on a given octane rating fuel than a carbureted '70s engine could. You do see some spark-ignition engines being brought back to tractors for these reasons, although they run compressed natural gas with an enormous octane rating rather than gasoline. It's not really that far of a step from CNG to gasoline, although it's more of a step compared to the small modifications to run a diesel engine on CNG. The biggest reason I see why there aren't gasoline tractors is that the manufacturers are hesitant to introduce anything but minor changes to existing designs (such as CNG engines) with the constant and loud threat of government regulation banning anything that's not battery powered at some point in the not so distant future.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'd buy a new gasoline tractor. My 1955 Allis Chalmers is still going trouble free (other than the rear rims rotting off and some hydraulic leaks.)

Lets see how many modern tractors are still going in 68 years without any kind of major repairs, LOL

All the school bus and ambulance fleets here have bought all brand new gasoline powered units this year because they are all finally fed up with the breakdowns with emission diesels and the high cost of diesel fuel which is now more than gas here.

Yeah diesels took a step backwards in reliability with all the junk the g_______t made them bolt onto them.
I think they’ve made strides in reliability of the emission systems and most buyers are feeling more confident. Manufacturers are also going longer on the warranties to bring buyers back.
I have had zero emissions issues with my 2020 Ram.

 

[TractorTYMe]

I went and got a 2004 Dirtymax (218k miles LLY), no emissions other than EGR that will be deleted.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think a lot of commercial buyers are reconsidering gas engines instead of diesels nowadays. Ford's 7.3 godzilla being one contender.

A gas hog with considerably less than diesel torque.
See very few out there.

With diesel & gas almost the same price now, the little blip in big block gas sales is probably coming to an end.

 

[Hay Dude]

As we type these posts, I am fixing a fuel leak on my Challenger Farm
Tractor
135HP Cat (Perkins) diesel.

If it was a gas engine, there’s a good chance I would be in todays obituaries.
Massive fuel leak sprayed on engine block. Lots of vapors, but no fire….

 

[Rarefish383]

I have 5 JD lawn tractors, all gas, and one Chinese 3 cylinder diesel FEL. My newest JD is an X738 and I love the injected gas engine. I use all of them year round, so fuel never sets in them. I have never had a fuel problem with any of them. Except the fuel solenoid went bad on a little JD 265, that now has over 3000 hours on it. If people would just go start stuff up now and then, they wouldn't have so much trouble with them. Small equipment especially. As far as my Chinese diesel, I have never had any fuel troubles with it. It does take a bit of glow plug when it gets below freezing.
The three bigger tractors I've had, but still small on a farming basis, have been a JD 2010 diesel, a Massey 135 gasser an an old Ford 641 gasser. No fuel problems with them either, and they never went more than a day or two with out running. The more they get run, the better they feel, Joe.

 

[Paystar]

A gas hog with considerably less than diesel torque.
See very few out there.

With diesel & gas almost the same price now, the little blip in big block gas sales is probably coming to an end.

View attachment 811874

Well yes and no. For what most people pull....a average size travel trailer or boat, most would never tell the difference in power.

I know a guy that leases new F250's every 2 years. He pulls a fifth wheel travel trailer with a boat on a trailer behind it. He goes from Sault Ste. Marie to White River Ontario all the time, and it's nothing but hills.
He got tired of the cost of maintenance with the 6.7 Powerstroke so he just got himself a 7.3 gasser and he said he puts the exact same gallons in every time he fills up pulling the trailers up there that his diesel did.

And the owner of my local welding shop got a new Chev dually with the big gas engine in it. He has a welding machine in the back and full length tool boxes on both sides of the box rails, plus his torches and bottles.
He showed me his dash display and gas receipts and he's getting 20 MPG on the highway.
I never got that with my Powerstrokes....not since the old 7.3 Powerstroke.

 

[Paystar]

DISCLAIMER.....I'm not sure I really trust that 20 MPG in the welding truck, but he seems real happy with it compared to his old diesel.

 

[Hay Dude]

Well yes and no. For what most people pull....a average size travel trailer or boat, most would never tell the difference in power.

I know a guy that leases new F250's every 2 years. He pulls a fifth wheel travel trailer with a boat on a trailer behind it. He goes from Sault Ste. Marie to White River Ontario all the time, and it's nothing but hills.
He got tired of the cost of maintenance with the 6.7 Powerstroke so he just got himself a 7.3 gasser and he said he puts the exact same gallons in every time he fills up pulling the trailers up there that his diesel did.

And the owner of my local welding shop got a new Chev dually with the big gas engine in it. He has a welding machine in the back and full length tool boxes on both sides of the box rails, plus his torches and bottles.
He showed me his dash display and gas receipts and he's getting 20 MPG on the highway.
I never got that with my Powerstrokes....not since the old 7.3 Powerstroke.

I also know everyone likes to justify their purchases. I mean with all due respect Paystar (because I respect and like your posts a lot), there‘s no way a gas engine that revs higher with less torque pulls the same as a diesel that revs lower with considerably more torque or can get the same fuel economy.

It just can’t happen. Or if it can, I don’t understand how.
Maybe he had a 6.7 that had a problem?
Maybe he didn’t know how to drive a diesel?
Maybe a transmission with more gears and/or a rear axle with numerically lower ratio?

IMO, another reason for walking away from diesel is the PRICE of the diesel option.

A ‘23 Cummins standard output is now $9,300!!!