I got last load of horse hay bales today.

[tacticalturnip]

@Fuddyduddy1952 are you getting rid of the horses?

 

[Jstpssng]

Looking back, my Dad had 3 horses on 7 acres then we got hay for them on 25 acres.
Thinking about it, it was far from correct. We cut with a sickle bar on a Farmall Cub, then raked into wind rows and he slowly drove along while I pitch forked it onto a trailer. The horse barn we made had one room with wood floor I forked it in load after load.
I can't remember him ever having soil tested or fertilized. Talk about a low budget operation!
Like anything there's a lot to it and expense doing it correctly.

My father used to hay his field to cover the expense of maintaining it. There was no fertilizing or pesticides involved, but he always sold the hay. He had a pinwheel rake, an old JD baler with it's own personality, and an 8N Ford. 50 years later we still bush hog it but poison ivy and autumn olive have crept in. This year will be the last... after 150 years it'll be out of the family.

 

[tacticalturnip]

My father used to hay his field to cover the expense of maintaining it. There was no fertilizing or pesticides involved, but he always sold the hay. He had a pinwheel rake, an old JD baler with it's own personality, and an 8N Ford. 50 years later we still bush hog it but poison ivy and autumn olive have crept in. This year will be the last... after 150 years it'll be out of the family.

That must stir some feelings.

 

[Hay Dude]

That is a very loaded question. So many variables and what do you want calculated? Land rent cost or you own it and taxes. Lime and fertilizer costs. Costs of putting in a field. How many years are you going to factor that in. Your time. Equipment. Bare minimum and old. Or in my case more than needed but when the weather is right boy can we move. What’s the cost of getting hay made fast to get the best quality you can get to the customer to retain that customer as well as getting that cutting off so you can get the next one growing.

Here is a conversation I had on a different forum.

I looked into upgrading my small square baler. Little background. Everything I researched with using an accumulator, it recommends using an inline. Just keeps everything consistent. I did not heed that advise and bought my square baler and tedder as a package deal. If your dealing with high volume crops we have found that bale inconsistencies exist and are annoying. We run 10ft discbines but when we rake we have to take 13 ft into the windrow in order to give the tractor enough room to pass a dropped bundle without driving on it. I knew someday I would upgrade to an inline.

I'm also into the technology that is coming out for square balers. When I saw NH advertise there it was only a matter of time before Massey would have something available.

With having a real winter I have spent sometime browsing and found that Massey offers the SimplE bale system
file:///C:/Users/Chris/Downloads/SimplEbale_Brochure_FA%2011.06.24%20(2).pdf

Then while I was looking at 1840 balers realized that my local dealer had a 3 year old leftover for $36,000 and after much contemplating I made a call. I tried to convince the sales rep that the dealer should get one of these balers into the field for advertisement. Round down the price to $30,000 then install the SimplEbale system. Well here is what I got back.

The leftover baler was gone so pricing went to brand new 1840 baler $46,462
Can't use the weigh system portion of SimplEbale so kit due to the accumulator so would just be the premium kit $6214.00
Integrated moisture system Harvest Tec star wheel sensor $3200
Setup of the SimplEbale system $2900

Bringing the price of a brand new high tech small square baler to $58,776

My quote says $51,572 If I went with the 7 year loan my payments would be $707 monthly. I can tell you that this deal is not happening. The good news with the SimplEbale system is it can be retrofitted to all 1840 balers so I see a used baler in my future.


I was asked if I felt it was worth the money for the integrated baling system.


I do, overtime as with anything. The biggest thing I would be looking for is the real time data on bale length and consistency giving you the ability to make adjustments in the field regards to speed. 2 windrows can look very similar, feed into the baler similar, but may just be enough difference in volume that your getting 1 extra flake per bale. What does that equate to over several acres? Some numbers.

The last 10 seasons with the current baler 133,445 bales
The last 5 seasons at our current acreage 77,967 bales
Lets say the system increases the last 5 seasons bale count 1% = 780 bales
For argument sake decrease it to 0.5% =390 bales
Average of 1st and 2nd field pickup price $1,390 increased revenue
Average of 1st and 2nd stored price $1,608 increased revenue
Average of 1st and 2nd winter sales price $2,145 increased revenue.

What our last 5 seasons of first cutting looked like and where I would hope we see the most return from the system

10732

11811

12788

4595

6063

2 seasons ago was the drought and last season sales were down and we brushhogged 30 acres. We also do round bales. Is there risk that it would take longer to pay for itself, absolutely. But, what if there was one stellar growing season and lets say I hit 13,000 bales sold using my 1st cutting out of field price only. 36 inch bale with 12 3"flakes but due to high yields we don't realize it but every bale has an extra flake.

Extra flake per bale 13,000 extra flakes
12 flakes per bale 1,083 extra bales that were made
Current out of field 1st cutting price $3250 increased revenue in one year.

What if ever single 1st cutting bale I made in the last 10 seasons had an extra flake. I know on average 1st cutting bales are longer than 2nd cutting.

10 seasons 81,529 bales
Extra flake per bale 81,529 flakes
12 flakes per bale 6,794 extra bales I am missing
Lost revenue at 1st cutting field pickup price $20,382
If only 50% of the bales are wrong. $10,191 lost revenue

Who measures every single bale. When I'm picking up bales I want to see consistent bales. But again what if they are all consistently inconsistent. Higher yields can do that. Looks close but is the bale on the left just a bit longer? Are they all longer and the one is longer yet?

We can do the what if all day long for the reasons for and against and that is only looking at one aspect of what that system has to offer. I think the one thing you would agree on is I like data and real numbers. Now imagine if I already had that system for the last 10 seasons. I know my bales that I handle and as with any baler there is inconsistencies but you see it after the fact. And how many of those bales are off by 1 flake. Those are the ones you don't see. It is those long ones that piss you off.


I know that this went off track to your question. There are so many variables to your question.

Chris,
If you never get stuck with hay (always sell out), then maybe you are priced too low or you are underestimating the quality or demand of your hay?
I sell out early. Thinking I might be giving away too much of my hard work?

When a “shrewd” buyer buys a product from a seller, he will never tell the seller “your product is perfect”. He will always say something like “your hay is really good, but there’s a guy down the road that makes some fantastic hay” to try to make you make even better hay.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

@Fuddyduddy1952 are you getting rid of the horses?

Absolutely not our horses. Dad passed in 2015, his last horse passed in the 90s.

 

[ponytug]

Chris,
If you never get stuck with hay (always sell out), then maybe you are priced too low or you are underestimating the quality or demand of your hay?
I sell out early. Thinking I might be giving away too much of my hard work?

When a “shrewd” buyer buys a product from a seller, he will never tell the seller “your product is perfect”. He will always say something like “your hay is really good, but there’s a guy down the road that makes some fantastic hay” to try to make you make even better hay.

My current hay supplier really knows hay, and it is usually awesome, and I tell him so every time. He knows that I used to grow hay, and so I know life on the other side as it were. I don't argue with him on his prices, either. My view is that the price includes his expertise.

In thirty years around here, he is the only hay supplier I have met who seems to really know his hay. We've only had one bad load in the entire time. Someone must have had a hay field next to a trashy highway. We picked up all sorts of trash from that load. The hay was ok, but the chip bags, candy wrappers, and coffee lids were just endless. Almost every bale had a handful. I felt bad feeding it, because no matter how hard we tried there was always something inside a flake. Fortunately, the animals were great about eating around the trash.

I am not, repeat not, looking forward to his retirement.

All the best,

Peter

 

[D&D]

That is a very loaded question. So many variables and what do you want calculated? Land rent cost or you own it and taxes. Lime and fertilizer costs. Costs of putting in a field. How many years are you going to factor that in. Your time. Equipment. Bare minimum and old. Or in my case more than needed but when the weather is right boy can we move. What’s the cost of getting hay made fast to get the best quality you can get to the customer to retain that customer as well as getting that cutting off so you can get the next one growing.
I know that this went off track to your question. There are so many variables to your question.

I have calculated out our cost per bale adding in all costs (tillage, seed, fertilizer, chemicals, depreciation, taxes and time). Looks like I'm definitely in the minority.
One of the guys told me, "just make your rounds smaller to increase profits".

 

[LHF2019]

.

 

[newbury]

I have calculated out our cost per bale adding in all costs (tillage, seed, fertilizer, chemicals, depreciation, taxes and time). Looks like I'm definitely in the minority.
One of the guys told me, "just make your rounds smaller to increase profits".

And that's one of the places poster to this thread FAIL when responding with comments about bales.
What the H E double toothpicks is the size/nominal weight?
I've only a passing interest because I too

started working hay at age 13

And started spending about 6 years with lifting bales and tossing them on the wagon.
Two main memories:
Oats are heavy
Farmers daughters make great memories.

 

[Hay Dude]

I just lost a 12 acre field of hay. Owner said he didn’t like that I had to run over his grass/lawn repeatedly to get access to hay field. Balked at my suggestion of building a small stone driveway to get to it, too.
I asked him if he wanted me to rotary mow it. He said yes.
I offered $850 to mow it at least 2x per year. He said mow it monthly from April-November. I said sure, how about $800/cut? He was fine with that.

I went from (2) hay cuts making 25 large squares @ $150/each = $3750 with a LOT of time and expenses to (8) rotary mowings @ $800/each = $6400 with MUCH less hassle.

That is an exceptional rotary mowing contract, albeit a small one, but a pretty telling example of the profitability of hay compared to rotary mowing (in some cases).