Is the Cyber Truck a Flop?

[WinterDeere]

And why would you want to do that?

Are you really asking why anyone would like fast cars and pickups? A huge fraction of the market is dedicated to exactly this, a high-power sportier variant of any vehicle is usually the most desirable trim level, for a reason.

Do you like replacing tires prematurely?

No one likes replacing tires, but it's a small price to pay for fun. Also, wanting to have power available when desired or needed doesn't require you to go around spinning your tires all day everyday.

If a battery fails in a vehicle with an ICE, do you throw away the vehicle?

Has anyone suggested that? I do believe the cost of replacement is high enough that poeple might not want to invest that much in an older vehicle, esp. if they were already considering an upgrade. But I haven't seen any discussion of anyone "throwing away" their EV due to a need for a battery replacement.

Battery powered vehicles should be the same way, you should be able to simply and easily swap out the battery.

EVs and their batteries should be designed to be interchangeable and standard sized (based on charge and performance), but which all manufacturers could easily cross-utilize.

This is already done to some degree, the Model S was famously designed with a large flat battery pack in the floor, to allow for quick battery swaps at a service center. Nearly zero customers were actually interested in signing up for battery swap plans, so they dropped it about ten years ago, but it's feasible.

But doing this also requires compromises in everything from handling to interior space, as the vehicles are typically designed around the massive weight of these batteries. In the case of the model S, I think it resulted in an undesirable step-in height, that some customers complained about.

Every battery would have a battery charge/health meter, and you could exchange a dead battery, but otherwise, it wouldn't matter if the battery was on the 100th charge or the 1000th charge.

Most of the data available so far shows these batteries are still above 90% capacity at a quarter of a million km. If we assume the typical customer might plug their car in overnight every 200 km, that's over 1000 typical charge cycles.

I don't think most EV owners are charging their battery to 100% and then waiting for the thing to hit 0%, before bothering to charge again. Most probably plug the car in when they get home, anytime the thing drops below 50%, depending on the length of their daily commute.

The current approach is so anti-customer, and short sighted to install manufacturer proprietary batteries in every unique brand of EV.

I'm not sure I follow this? Most customers will never need a battery replacement. So, you're saying "zero charge" is anti-consumer? Let's not pretend the average person will ever have to swap batteries on their EV, failure is rare.

Recent studies have shown that only 2% of new EV buyers will ever need to buy a new battery, a substantial fraction of which are those damaged in accidents and covered by insurance. In fact, although the data is too "young" to be conclusive, but all indications are that EV's built after 2016 (newer battery tech) should cause the replacement rate to drop below 1%.

New Updates: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last?

We get a lot of questions from our community about electric car batteries. That is partly because the cost of battery replacement is so high (more on that later), but it is also due to limited information.

www.recurrentauto.com

 

[BackRoad]

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

All the damn leaf peeping tourists a month ago...

I guess we are damn leaf peeping tourists in your opinion even though we live in the woods and in the country, my wife still likes to go for a drive to see the colors.

In fact, the last 2 weekends we have been trail riding in the side by side a couple hours north of home for 2 reasons, 1 the colors of the leaves and 2, the trails close on November 1st for hunting season.

 

[Oaktree]

The problem with an industry standard swappable battery is that battery technology improving rapidly. A standard would be a line in the sand killing innovation. We may get there some day, but we wouldn't want to stop innovation this early in the game.

Not necessarily. The charge regulation circuitry could be built into the battery packs to allow for innovations in battery technology. Standardized input/output voltages, with all the custom circuitry internal.

Biggest issue would be shape/size of the packs. The way the batteries are built into the framework of the vehicle varies a lot.
Not an unsolveable problem, but it would require standardization.

Are you really asking why anyone would like fast cars and pickups? A huge fraction of the market is dedicated to exactly this, a high-power sportier variant of any vehicle is usually the most desirable trim level, for a reason.

Don't know what circles you run in, but "huge fraction" is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there's a market for sports cars, but it's certainly not all-inclusive. As far as trucks go, maybe you're one of those who doesn't use his for actual hauling, and/or don't live where snow and slippery roads are a concern. When I buy a truck I look at towing/hauling ability, not 0-60 time.

No one likes replacing tires, but it's a small price to pay for fun.

I dunno, I think most of us outgrew peeling out by the time we were in our early-mid 20s.

 

[ultrarunner]

Tesla attempted with government funding to develop a quick swap battery system but as far as I know the prototype worked but was not economically feasible..

Tesla battery station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ultrarunner]

Lots of EV in the neighborhood and many are Tesla.

This week a Tesla Truck joined the neighborhood EV fleet.

 

[DarkBlack]

All easily addressed constraints with an industry standard swappable battery. It would remove the majority of the barriers to widespread EV adoption.

That’s simply your opinion, and is certainly, not a proven fact.
Battery swapping has been tried, (not in the US). It’s not such a great concept.
Being able to charge at home is a big draw for EV adoption, not ease of charge at a station you have to drive to.
Imagine your brand new, one week old EV truck at it’s first swapping station, getting your healthy brand new battery swapped out for some old used one.
In addition, some of these vehicles employ the battery structure as an integral part of the chassis assembly.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I guess we are damn leaf peeping tourists in your opinion even though we live in the woods and in the country, my wife still likes to go for a drive to see the colors.

In fact, the last 2 weekends we have been trail riding in the side by side a couple hours north of home for 2 reasons, 1 the colors of the leaves and 2, the trails close on November 1st for hunting season.

I love seeing the leaves change, it has always been a big part of why I stayed in New England. What disrupts people, not only me, is when you are trying to go somewhere and tourists are holding up traffic, driving well below speed limit, say 35 in a 50. (most speed limits in our rural area) Stopping on the side of the road for pictures in areas where they can't fully pull off road, and causes a two lane to become 1 1/2. Nearby Franconia Notch in NH has gotten better, it is a major highway that naturally goes down to 1 lane each way, with people parking everywhere despite that, and walking across the road like they are in the right.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Lots of EV in the neighborhood and many are Tesla.

This week a Tesla Truck joined the neighborhood EV fleet.

Just curious, in Cali do people want an EV, or are they being forced to buy with ICE possibly being put out to pasture? Admittingly, I do not keep up with Cali politics. Not trying to be a wise ass, genuinely want to know...

It is entirely possible that EV is the culture forming there.

 

[WinterDeere]

Don't know what circles you run in, but "huge fraction" is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there's a market for sports cars, but it's certainly not all-inclusive.

Sure, this will vary with where you live, sports cars are expensive luxuries. But there isn’t a house in my neighborhood without at least one hi-performance car in the garage, and several have more than one.

Remember that the founding principle of Tesla was, “EV’s do not need to be boring, they can be high performance“. They were specifically targeting the higher end portion of the market, with all of their early development effort. I suspect part of their reasoning in chasing this market was an acceptance that the new technology will remain expensive in the early years, so targeting the desires of enthusiast type customers makes sense than chasing the bottom of the barrel value market customers.

As far as trucks go, maybe you're one of those who doesn't use his for actual hauling, and/or don't live where snow and slippery roads are a concern. When I buy a truck I look at towing/hauling ability, not 0-60 time.

My truck is used almost exclusively for bad weather and towing, I have other cars to drive when it’s nice out and I’m not hauling. But I’m not sure why you would even bring this up, as these attributes are not exclusive, in fact they’re directly linked to one another in most cases. The gasoline or EV engine package with highest towing capacity will nearly always be the one with the best 0-60 times.