DEF going away ?

[walnutman]

Still have my bought new 2004 Dodge Cummins. Came from the factory with no emissions equipment.

 

[ruffdog]

This is a major reason I won’t be selling/trading my 2005 Kubota…. I don’t want to deal with theses issues.

My neighbor has a Kubota LX3310 that he is having a problem with regen system. The first issue is he hardly uses enough rpms. I have told him he won't break it so start running 2000rpm+ but he just won't. He doesn't know what the lights on the dash mean and he will shut it down during a regen. The tractor has been at the dealer enough that they are telling him it no longer will be under warranty. I went over and discussed the regen procedure in the manual with him and I don't know if it will help. They need to be operated within certain parameters.

 

[Snobdds]

It's so we all can have one nice thing: clean air.

Since it appears your not up to speed on things, I'll inform you.

The EPA takes 95% of the particulate and nitrous oxides out of the air with their current standards. California is trying to get an additional 4% of said pollutants taken out. That 4% represents the costliest and hardest to obtain. The amount of stuff to take that additional 4% out creates a turning point on reliability and extra fuel consumption to turn large small particles into small particitacls.

It is crazy to create standards so tough that it creates an affordability problem for this country. Pair that with the fact most emissions are actually getting prevented, begs the question of Why?

The why is because there are some people in power that want to see internal combustion go away, but they have no plan to replace internal combustion to keep moving our country ahead. Then people like you are the foot soldiers of misinformation that go around talking about how dirty our clean air MIGHT be if this doesn't happen. They act like if we don't get that remaining 4% out of the air, all that ocean front property will be underwater, like the scare tactics of the last 40 years.

So I take issue with your little platitude...Clean air. Please.

 

[Sid Post]

They already can and are making equipment without emissions for countries without emission standards. I’m not sure why people are so sure that they will keep spending probably $10,000 per unit just to avoid changing production.

And ask yourself why Massey and others buiild most of their tractors in South America for our market today?

Heck, the 4707 doesn't even have emissions on it in the USA right now.

 

[Sid Post]

What gets lost in all of this discussion on diesel emissions is that just a bare diesel engine today, runs cleaner than the similar diesel engine did 20 years ago. There are a few diesel engines produced today, that run clean enough to circumvent having to have diesel emissions equipment on them.
In my opinion, I would not completely eliminate diesel emissions, regulations, but would ease them back to a more reasonable level.

When I was in the market a few years ago, the Massey 4707 had no emissions on it.

 

[DieselBound]

DEF is a means for reducing DPM (Diesel Exhaust Particulate Matter). The issue here has to do with it being inserted into EPA regulations incorrectly; DPM is NOT the same as NOX and other "pollutants." This is why it is likely going to get pulled: but it's possible that the laws outlining emissions could get altered to properly address DPM.

Here's a decent overview:

I agree with others here that a diesel engine CAN be engineered to work w/o a lot of this crap. Scania and Mazda are proof: Mazda, with their newer 3.0L inline 6 cyl diesel can meet tier IV w/o any of these controls but I think that Mazda kept the EGR to ensure it could meet tier V.

I have lots of diesels with varying degrees of emissions stuff and some with none at all. I have had zero issues with any emissions-related equipment (though I've had to clean up used stuff due to people not using their equipment correctly). Biggest headache on all this newer stuff is sensors (quality sensors will last; crappy ones not so much). And manufacturers not providing access to ECMs might be the worst (owners can't properly work on and troubleshoot equipment w/o access).

 

[dkmc]

Since it appears your not up to speed on things, I'll inform you.

The EPA takes 95% of the particulate and nitrous oxides out of the air with their current standards. California is trying to get an additional 4% of said pollutants taken out. That 4% represents the costliest and hardest to obtain. The amount of stuff to take that additional 4% out creates a turning point on reliability and extra fuel consumption to turn large small particles into small particitacls.

It is crazy to create standards so tough that it creates an affordability problem for this country. Pair that with the fact most emissions are actually getting prevented, begs the question of Why?

The why is because there are some people in power that want to see internal combustion go away, but they have no plan to replace internal combustion to keep moving our country ahead. Then people like you are the foot soldiers of misinformation that go around talking about how dirty our clean air MIGHT be if this doesn't happen. They act like if we don't get that remaining 4% out of the air, all that ocean front property will be underwater, like the scare tactics of the last 40 years.

So I take issue with your little platitude...Clean air. Please.

Then there's that thing about China and them building more and more coal fired power plants. And that thing about the 'important' people in the USA that fly in those big private air planes that burn tons of fuel with no emmission controls. And rumor has it that those 2 things end up not helping the clean air thing even worse than all the bad dirty engines in the USA pollute.

 

[Hazel]

Mahindra tractors are basically bottom tier. Their solution isn’t better.

What do you mean Bottom Tier?

 

[RB5]

Nope. "Rolling Coal" is an intentional thing. They intentionally modify their trucks to produce as much black smog as possible.

I see one every now and then and it makes me remember how bad diesel emissions used to be years ago.

 

[dnw64]

And you are telling me that new 6.5 or 25hp engine emits less pollution than the 3 and 10hp engines of the 70-80's. Vehicle engines have followed the same story, with gas and diesel engines on cars and trucks getting bigger displacements.

I don't know about in small engines, but I can tell you that my 2024, 430 HP, 8000# truck gets better gas mileage than my 1979, 155 HP, 4500# truck. Both gas V8s.