Aftermarket Cylinders on 420 Loader

[TractorGuy]

I recently purchased a used 420 loader to put on my 4310. It was missing the bucket cylinders and the lift cylinders looked like they were leaking so I decided to put aftermarket cylinders on it. From reading other threads it looked like the 420 came with 1-3/4" bore cylinders with smaller rods. The next model up being 430 had 2" bore cylinders with a higher weight capacity and higher lift.

The lift cylinders on the 420 had a retracted length of around 26" with a 16" stroke. I replaced them with 2" bore by 18" stroke cross cylinders which also have a retracted length of 26". The head end cross was 1/4" wider than the JD and the rod end was narrower. I used 2x18 cylinders for lift and bucket. These also have 1-1/4" rods which are larger than the JD cylinders.

The fluid ports on the cross type cylinders exit at top or bottom rather than the side exit ports on the JD cylinders. I didn't expect this to be a problem but I encountered tire interference with the lift cylinder hoses with wheels in the narrow position. I resolved this by putting the wheels in the wide position which I intended to do anyways for loader work. The lift cylinder hoses also are stretched a bit at full extension so I plan to add some 90* adapters to those. That should resolve any future interference if I put the wheels back to narrow and also resolve the stretch. Of course I could have also made those hoses an inch longer and just run in wide mode.

My primary use will be with a grapple so I don't anticipate the limited bucket dump at full height to be an issue for me. Turns out the max height is way higher than stock so bucket dump is not an issue.

Here is my materials list:

4 - 2x18 cross type cylinders (Shop these around) I bought the Magister brand because they were on sale for $104 ea shipped and Surplus Center wanted $158 plus shipping for the Prince Wolverine brand. At last check the Magister went up and Surplus Center had gone down on the Prince Wolverine cylinders. It would be worth paying a little more for US made cylinders but not worth $50 plus shipping difference in my opinion.
4 - #6 ORB male to #6 ORFS male 90* adapters for bucket cylinders. I used the existing adapters on the lift cylinders.
6 - 18" hoses with #6 ORFS female ends, 90* on one end and straight on the other. (If you set wheels wide and go with a straight end as I did add an inch to two of these)
2 - 16" hoses with #6 ORFS female ends, 90* on one end and straight on the other. (If you set wheels wide and go with a straight end as I did add an inch to these)
Note: hose lengths were actual length of hose. Fittings made them longer than the listed lengths.
8 - 1" shaft stop collars for spacers on the narrow ends.
1 - Rubber coil spring spacer.

Modifications were pretty simple.

I cut 1/8" off of each side of the head end cross with a cut off wheel.

I used the existing tube and adapter off the original lift cylinder. I had some rubber coil spring spacers and I cut one of those in half to make a standoff support for the tube adapter.

On the rod ends I put a 1" stop collar on each side to take up the space left by the narrow cross. (remove the allen screws)

This is how the hoses looked assembled.

With the 2x18 cylinder pulled all the way back as far as it would go it looks like it was a couple inches from being retracted fully and the cylinder body was against the loader frame. Edit: It hasn't been an issue.

Here is a pic at full height and full dump.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I don't think a 2 x 20 dump cylinder would be a wise idea. If you look at your fully dumped picture the rod is getting pretty close to touching the mast. Instead I would look into adding an extra linkage like the 430 loader has to get the dump angle you are looking for. Just my thoughts.

 

[TractorGuy]

I don't think a 2 x 20 dump cylinder would be a wise idea. If you look at your fully dumped picture the rod is getting pretty close to touching the mast. Instead I would look into adding an extra linkage like the 430 loader has to get the dump angle you are looking for. Just my thoughts.

I considered that. Would be more work than I want to mess with for a function I have no real need for.

I think the 430 loader may have longer arms too. If you look at the distance from the grill guard to the front of the bucket you couldn't get much closer to where you are dumping. An extra 2 inches would probably give full dump. I expect the cylinder body would touch before the rod as it does on retract with the 2x18. Would be a good idea to mock it up with PVC pipe or cardboard before making the mistake I did by assuming. Not sure why I didn't do that before I ordered the cylinders.

Edit: I just looked at the specs on Tractor Data and it shows the dumped bucket clearance of a 420 loader at 66.1 inches and 78.3 inches on the 430 loader. I measured the dumped bucket clearance on my setup at 93-1/4 inches. If I lower the lift 10 inches it will be more dumped than in the pics and still have more clearance than a 430.

 

[TractorGuy]

The 2x18 cylinders are working okay for me. The loader leaks down pretty bad and I don't know how to figure out if it's the cylinders or the SCV. Most of the time after it has been parked for a day or so it has leaked down to the ground even with the bucket removed.

At least I know it will pick up 1200 lbs. and with a good bit of that weight forward of the bucket. I had to move my Generator the other day which has a dry weight of 1140 lbs. I imagine with fuel, coolant, and oil it is very close to 1200 lbs. I didn't attempt to lift it any higher than I had to in case something let go. It would leak down after a few minutes and I would have to raise it again but I had no problem getting it to stay off the ground while I moved it. I am wishing I would have gone with Prince cylinders instead of these Magister ones but I don't know if it would have made any difference.

Here is a pic of it lifting a couple of stumps. It remained up as long as it needed to here but I only paused long enough to get off and take a picture.

 

[dfkrug]

The 2x18 cylinders are working okay for me. The loader leaks down pretty bad and I don't know how to figure out if it's the cylinders or the SCV. Most of the time after it has been parked for a day or so it has leaked down to the ground even with the bucket removed.

Great job.

I am no fan of the 420 loader due to the 25mm cylinder rods. You now have a 420 that corrects that problem. PMS is right that the 430 FEL's "kidney links" would help even more.

As for the leakdown, if you can not see the boom move, it is a feature, not a bug. It is the valve, not the cyls. Leaking cyls would have visible external oil.

 

[TractorGuy]

Great job.

I am no fan of the 420 loader due to the 25mm cylinder rods. You now have a 420 that corrects that problem. PMS is right that the 430 FEL's "kidney links" would help even more.

As for the leakdown, if you can not see the boom move, it is a feature, not a bug. It is the valve, not the cyls. Leaking cyls would have visible external oil.

There wouldn't be any way to add the 430 links without a redesign and different cylinders.

I was thinking the cylinders could possibly leak internally around the piston and cause leak down. As far as I could tell this tractor never had a loader until I got it so the SCV should be like new. I have read where others had this same leak down though so I guess I will live with it. It shouldn't be an issue as long as I don't pick up something heavy and stand underneath it. :thumbsup:

 

[dfkrug]

There wouldn't be any way to add the 430 links without a redesign and different cylinders.

Yeah, not a simple addition. Redesign required. One of the problems with the longer 420 bkt cyls is that they hyper-extended to dump the bkt, and increase the chance of bending the rod.

If you have a piston seal leak inside the cyl, then you will see an external oil leak only from also-leaking gland seal when retracting. When your valve is off, the cyl is trying to retract, and you don't mention any external cyl leaks. The chance of both piston seal and gland seal leaking on a new cyl is near zero. Ergo, your valve leaks.

 

[Zebrafive]

Maybe extend the head end mount (weld on a spacer) of the bucket cylinders the length the rod has not retracted at full curl. This would give more dump travel.

 

[TractorGuy]

Since the time to edit has expired I will kick this back up and say the 2x18 cylinders are working fine in all 4 locations. The loader has a heck of a lot more height than a 420 or 430 and plenty of lifting power for my size tractor.