New here - Clearing the pine trees on our land, is this contract fair?

[Tangoddess]

Hello and good morning,

I am new here, so thank you for your patience and support and help.

My family, including me, owns about 12 acres of land, with our house, in the north Houston, TX area.

The property has several pine trees that have been there for years or decades, some of which are close to the house.

I would say that in total, the property has about ~400-500 trees of varying diameter, all of them are tall, 50 ft or more.

I have looked around for loggers to cut the trees and buy the lumber. There aren't that many willing to come here, because we are semi-urban, so their distance to the saw mills can be long.

About a year ago one quote that I received was $10/ton for 8/10,$15 a ton on 12 and up and $2/ton on pulpwood. That was a year ago, and I did not proceed due to several episodes of rain last year.

I have reached out to the local forestry resources, but the most I have got from them is information on best practices, etc. I could hire a forest consultant as a resource, but many of them live further out.

Now, another logger who is keen to do the work, is proposing:

a) That he cut the lumber

b) He would pile us the branches and debris (that is large enough to be grabbed or moved by his machines) into several piles, that I can later dispose of, burn, etc.

c) He will not pay us anything for the lumber, but rather, do the clean up as discussed above

d) That he has a period of 6 months to clear the land. He feels it will take about 2 weeks, but wants a contingency for 6 months.

My family and I want to clear the trees, so we can use the land for pasture, planting fruit trees etc. We are very new to this, so any and all advice is very welcome.

thank you kind people

 

[treemuncher]

Have a written contract and be VERY specific about the terms that you expect of the contractor. Make sure that you are a named insured on their policy.

Sounds to me like he wants to take found money and run. Is he to remove or cut the stumps or just pile branches and tops? Removing stumps to make pasture will cost big bucks. If your pines are large, that money will add up fast. You might be wise to contact a timber consultant. Many times, their services will be paid for by the higher prices that they can get you for your timber with proper marketing skills.

When I clear for any customer, I always suggest logging out any larger trees that are unwanted prior to me doing my thing. Why pay out money for something that could bring in money?

From my past experiences, many of the loggers that I have met have been the worst liars and best theives that I've ever tried to work with. I have also met a rare few in the field that have treated me fairly and stuck by their word, but they are typically very rare in the industry.

 

[Tangoddess]

Thank you.

He is not going to remove any stumps, and I fear that he may just take the trees and do some superficial piling up of the branches and run.

I am also concerned with the 6 month term in the contract, it basically states that he has rights to the trees for a period of 6 months?

I understand weather delays etc. but this seems long.

Thank you kind people

 

[EddieWalker]

Do you have any idea how big those piles of branches are going to be? Think massive, and then triple it!!!!

What happens to the stumps? Around here, what I've been told by people that have had their land logged is that you can get paid for the logs and they leave a massive mess behind. Or you can have them leave it clean with all stumps pulled and the ground graded and ready to plant grass in exchange for not getting any money for the logs.

My neighbor had his land thinned for pulp wood. They took out every third row of trees, ground them up on site and hauled off all the chips. They made piles of the branches and left the stumps in place. After he got paid for the pulp wood, he spent twice as much having the stumps removed and his land graded for planting.

If they do not remove the stumps, you need to figure out how you are going to deal with them. They are extremely difficult and slow to dig out. My neighbor had a 45 tonne excavator pull his out, which went quickly, but also created an even bigger mess to deal with. They used a D6 Cat dozer to smooth it all out. They where at it for well over a month!!!!

 

[Tangoddess]

Here is the copy of the actual contract sent by the logger (the buyer)

any comments please kind friends

 

[newbury]

Without knowing the background of the logger he has a very good deal for HIM.

Timber prices have been drifting down but I don't think they are that low if you have a good stand of trees easily accessible.

My wifes family just sold last year about 18 acres of pine in southern Mississippi.

When the first guy gave a price and they almost accepted it - without asking me - I raised h-e-double toothpicks. We eventually got about 3 times the price after going out for bids.

Small lots are hard to sell at times but if the loggers first offer was that contract hold out for more. Try and get at least 3 bids, contact your state forester. And note - the contract states 12 months to complete removal.

And as Eddie wrote - try to get all the stumps removed and the land smoothed if your not going to grow trees again.

 

[EddieWalker]

I just read your contract and for the life of me I can't figure out what's in it for you? He gets all the timber, he gets to decide what type of mess to leave behind based on "common practices" and then he gets to go.

How do you know he will do what he says he will? Is there any way to force, or strongly encourage him to do what he says he will? I've found that requiring a deposit to be held by a third party, like Title Companies do when buying/selling a house, ensures that what is promised, is actually done.

A good example is when somebody wants to borrow a tool from me. I say sure, just leave me the cash amount to buy a new one if you never come back with it.

Once he cuts down the trees and loads them up onto the trucks, how are you going to force him to clean up the place?

 

[IslandTractor]

That contract is certainly favorable to the logger. He's leaving all the stumps in the ground and a massive amount of debris. He's holding you hostage for 12 months and saying he is blameless if he cuts into a neighbor's timber.

I'd suggest getting another couple of bids and to check with a local forester to see if that type of cut and run contract is standard.

 

[EddieWalker]

Another thought when hiring a logger. Ask to see their last three jobs. If they wont tell you where they worked last, run. Then go and see what it looks like there.

 

[billwa]

I just went through a very similar process. It took almost two years to find a logger who I felt I could trust. With no payment due at the end of the job, you are really vulnerable to the logger packing up and moving on. You might think about a provision that he can start the job any time in the six month period, but must complete it within a reasonable amount of time once he starts. My guy wanted flexibility about the starting date so that he could take better paying jobs until he had a dry spell, but he had no problem finishing the job once he started. In fact, he didn't want to have to trailer his equipment in and out more than once.

Almost everyone I talked to advised getting a forester, but I had absolutely no luck finding one to look at small acreage. I talked to every one in the area. Most had no interest and the rest made no commitments and then stopped calling back. Maybe if you have less commercial logging in your area, you'll have better luck finding a forester.

It sounds like your land is fairly lightly wooded, but be aware of how big the brush piles can be. My guy had a serious track hoe and was able to make piles 30 feet tall. If I had realized just how big the piles could be, I might have asked for more and smaller. It is going to be a big job processing those piles.

Think about stumps, because there is probably no better time to have them out than when the logger is there. If he has the equipment to do it, you will probably save money in the long run by having him pull them. I had to pay a little over the value of the wood to get the stumps removed, but it would have cost me a lot more to bring in somebody else to do it.