Yard Drainage advice -- Subsoiler/MB to dig a trench and do a french drain??

[tycoonbob]

Hi all.

Family and I bought a house on ~5 acres back last fall. Since we've lived here, we've learned that there are some areas in the yard that water will stand, and it's becoming an issue. We have a field behind the house and the only way to get to it is to drive through the yard. I'm wanting to put a gravel drive, but it would go right through a place where water will sit. In fact, there has been standing water there for the past 2 months straight (in KY, so winter is here, but it's only gotten down to low 20s/upper 10s so far). I think a french drain system would do the trick, right? More specifically, Lowe's sells EZdrain by NDS, which should be as easy as trench, drop, cover.

What I'm trying to figure out is what is the best way to trench and how deep do I need to go. I have my Kubota L3560, but no backhoe. Neighbor has a bobcat and excavator I could use, but the smallest bucket he has is 24", so going to be more mess than anything. TSC has the $200 Middle Busters as well as the $200 Subsoilers. The MB may not go deep enough, and the Subsoiler wouldn't be wide enough of a trench (the EZdrain stuff is 8" in diameter). EA has their 18" Potato Plow (Potato Plow | Middle Buster by Everything Attachments) which should go deeper than the TSC MB, and be wider than the TSC Subsoiler. This ground is soft, full of clay, but not broken up before (that I'm aware of). Would something like the EA Potato Plow/MB be able to get me a 16" trench in a few passes? Should I drain to the ditch, dig a dry well, or just lay enough EZdrain and call it good (I've always heard a proper french drain system doesn't need an outlet; it will hold water until it can soak into the ground down below)?

I know I could rent a trencher, but I have several areas on the property that I'll eventually do this to, so I don't want to repeatedly rent a trencher, nor do I plan to do all my trenching in a single day. I don't mind picking up a $350 implement that will do the job, and find other uses for later.

I've got a few pictures in a Google Album that shows the area I'm focused on.
Drainage issues - Google Photos

The area is between the road and my shop, and also backs up to the blacktop driveway. My ultimate plan is to place a gravel drive from the blacktop, around the building and along the backside of the building to the fenced in field in the back. I took these pictures yesterday after a solid 14 hours of rain, so it shows how wet everything is right after a rain, as well as how much water the ditch sees. the ditch will run dry in a day, but that area in the yard will stay like that for weeks, even in the summer. Nasty to mow, and you can see tracks where I've driven my truck with a trailer through in a couple times, more than 2 months ago. What's the best way to get it dried up?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[rademamj1]

I have the very same drainage problem you have, and have resolved some but not all my problems. Looks like you have nearly 100% clay right at the surface and its everywhere based on your photos. No runoff slopes combined with very low water absorption rate into the ground creates the problem.

First off, take more photos for your own records on exactly where the water is ponding up so you can make plans when the weather improves and it drys out more. Because its just too wet do do anything right now. Any heavy equipment will sink into the clay and create a worse problem.

Draw up a map/plan on where your French drains will go for maximum effectiveness. Your French drains will both absorb surface water and flow it down slope, and even a few inches per 10 feet is all thats needed to move the water in the drain towards a buried gravel sump or dry well located at end of your drain system. Expect the EZ Drain to run about $600 per hundred feet. The gravel sump must have clean washed gravel and a membrane above the gravel to prevent any adjacent clay particles and sand from clogging the sump or dry well.

French drains are best done using a backhoe with a 9" or 12 inch bucket. Unfortunately, trenching machines rarely get as wide as you will need it. So backhoe is usually the best. Even if your using the EZ Drain pipes, you should lay down 3" of gravel base at bottom of trench, then install your EZ Drain on top that gravel base, add more gravel ontop and then fill with clean 100% sand to surface. DO NOT USE YOUR CLAY AS TOP FILL FOR YOUR FRENCH DRAINS, because it will prevent water entry into your French drain system.

Also remember some areas can just be sloped to encourage runoff. Maybe bringing in trucks with sand rich top soil and spreading it so it is sloped toward a runoff ditch may solve some areas.

Lastly, get a towed plug areator for your property. These areators will typically plug down about 4 inches and encourage additional absorption into the ground.
I am sure many other members have good experience, and will provide you good advice.

 

[tycoonbob]

I have the very same drainage problem you have, and have resolved some but not all my problems. Looks like you have nearly 100% clay right at the surface and its everywhere based on your photos. No runoff slopes combined with very low water absorption rate into the ground creates the problem.

First off, take more photos for your own records on exactly where the water is ponding up so you can make plans when the weather improves and it drys out more. Because its just too wet do do anything right now. Any heavy equipment will sink into the clay and create a worse problem.

Draw up a map/plan on where your French drains will go for maximum effectiveness. Your French drains will both absorb surface water and flow it down slope, and even a few inches per 10 feet is all thats needed to move the water in the drain towards a buried gravel sump or dry well located at end of your drain system. Expect the EZ Drain to run about $600 per hundred feet. The gravel sump must have clean washed gravel and a membrane above the gravel to prevent any adjacent clay particles and sand from clogging the sump or dry well.

French drains are best done using a backhoe with a 9" or 12 inch bucket. Unfortunately, trenching machines rarely get as wide as you will need it. So backhoe is usually the best. Even if your using the EZ Drain pipes, you should lay down 3" of gravel base at bottom of trench, then install your EZ Drain on top that gravel base, add more gravel ontop and then fill with clean 100% sand to surface. DO NOT USE YOUR CLAY AS TOP FILL FOR YOUR FRENCH DRAINS, because it will prevent water entry into your French drain system.

Also remember some areas can just be sloped to encourage runoff. Maybe bringing in trucks with sand rich top soil and spreading it so it is sloped toward a runoff ditch may solve some areas.

Lastly, get a towed plug areator for your property. These areators will typically plug down about 4 inches and encourage additional absorption into the ground.
I am sure many other members have good experience, and will provide you good advice.

Thanks for the great info! Since I posted my questions earlier, I've have done nothing but additional research. While the EZdrain stuff looks easy to use, I think I'm going to stick with the more traditional methods, especially since you still have to use a geotextile non-mesh fabric around the EZdrain. I should be able to bring in a truck load of gravel for a decent price, and can't have too much gravel on-site since I have a few different projects.

I wish I would have bought the backhoe attachment for my L3560, but cost and everything was a limiter. I may see if I can find a 12" bucket for my neighbors backhoe, but otherwise I'm looking at renting something or doing it with a middle buster/potato plow...which should work as long as I can get a good enough depth. I'll probably have to clean up by hand after the fact, but not a big deal.

Regarding a dry well or similar, I don't think that's the path I'll go to. Instead I think I will have an outlet at the ditch that runs along the road, since that flows down into a creek on the other side of the property and has good flow. What I kinda have figured right now is 2 ~50' runs that connect to a 35' run that drains to the ditch.


A pull behind aerator is something else on my list, since I know I could benefit from it. In some areas, we have lots of clay and it's very compacted. If pulling an aerator around the property a couple times of year can alleviate any of the standing water issues, it's money well spent IMO.

I've attached a drone photo and marked red lines where I'm looking to do this. The ground behind the shop (toward the neighbor) slops uphill, so I really don't need to go any further that way. The backside of the shop has a slight slope toward the road as well, and the area with red lines is really the low point in this quadrant of the property. I feel if I address it, I will see improvements in that whole area, as long as I do it right!

 

[LouNY]

If you run 4" or 6" perforated field drain tile many of the trenchers that can be rented will do an 8" to 10" wide trench.
If you lay a strip of fabric down with a bit of gravel in the bottom then the perforated drain and fill with grave most of the
way and lay the fabric on top of the gravel and sandy loam you should get good drainage with a minimal cost.
I wouldn't bother trying to tee any of the lines 2 or 3 separate lines running to the ditch would be good.
In the ditch you may still need a dry well full of pea stone to keep the critters from going up in the drain tiles, then dieing
and plugging them up.

 

[Wakey]

Nice place Ty, I like your shop and the decks. What looks like a child’s fort has solar? Nice!

I’ll leave it to people that routinely solve issues like this but my first inclination is that perhaps you just need a load or two of topsoil.

 

[Egon]

You have a tractor and loader?
Start at the low end and dig a trench the width of the bucket through to the wet area. Gota make sure it all slopes to the road ditch. Stockpile the dirt. If that works for proper drainage lay the drainage pipes and backfill. Sow new grass.

Working from the bottom the trench should constantly drain.

 

[user.69169]

Maybe you can rent dis in 3 point hitch version.
Inter-Drain GP-Series V plow | laying trenchless field drainage | Van Damme Drainage - YouTube

 

[jaxs]

It take's alot less time and expense to move water through a shallow trough depression(swale) than french drain or other pipe. Look at it this way. You have to dig a ditch to install pipe,why not let the ditch do the job and save the additional time and expense of pipe,rock,filter cloth and backfill. The ditch need's to become wider as it become's deeper. The idea is have it more of a gentle slop so as to be able to mow along ditch without blades digging in.
I reccomend you buy,beg,borrow or steal a transit or other means of finding grade in several locations. Draw a map and mark elevations. The two key elivations are #1. place where water stand and #2 the closest place to #1 that presently drain's well. If #2 is 125 feet away from #1 ,it only need's to be 3" lower to drain well. Your neighbor's bobcat should make short work of it by lowering one corner of blade to cut a long vee trough. Us map created earlier to redestribute soil.
Something you said caught my attention. "The ground behind the shop (toward the neighbor) slops uphill, so I really don't need to go any further that way." How much run-off from the neighbor will you be handling? I've had two properties where neighbor brough in soil to raise their yard so that rainwater ran into my yard. My solution was building a berm along property line. In both instances,the neighbor didn't like it and said I should cut a passage way for their water to get past berm. In both cases I got them to admit to raising grade on their property then asked if they would like me to raise my grade so that not only would they have to deal with rain that fell on their property,mine would run onto them as well. If getting hold of a level is a problem,water levels are inexpensive and very accurate. You can easily operate 50 feet between points and some people go even farthar.

 

[rademamj1]

Around here, open ditches crossing a front yard, side yard or back yard negatively impacts the property values. French drains done correctly still moves water from the problem area and are out of sight and therefore do increase property values.

Some of my neighbors have dug small ponds and slope drainage in a 360 degree range directly into the pond. They then commonly plant shrubs and flowers around the pond and also put a park bench. The pond then accumulates water for much of the year and looks very natural.

 

[jaxs]

Around here, open ditches crossing a front yard, side yard or back yard negatively impacts the property values. French drains done correctly still moves water from the problem area and are out of sight and therefore do increase property values.

Some of my neighbors have dug small ponds and slope drainage in a 360 degree range directly into the pond. They then commonly plant shrubs and flowers around the pond and also put a park bench. The pond then accumulates water for much of the year and looks very natural.

Just go's to show what a difference a couple hundred miles can make. Around here ponds that only hold water part of the year generally cause land owners to be fine for harboring mosquitos and neither ditches nor French drains increase property value. Then there's the pet mudholes in front yards where whole families roll up pant legs,shed shoes and injoy mud squeezing between toes. I think it's the Okie influnce.