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  1. DonaldP

    Big tool rack - no returns in 7 years claim

    Not anymore!!!
  2. DonaldP

    Big tool rack - no returns in 7 years claim

    I’d like to know if the orange Kubota paint is a higher quality than the gray paint on any of the Kubota cab components…. You can scrape up that material with a fingernail. I’m not impressed.
  3. DonaldP

    Big tool rack - no returns in 7 years claim

    Hmmm… I’m your man!!! I’ll order one tonight and promptly return it!!!! I’ll keep you informed and then you can let me know if the return counter increments!!! Cheers!!!
  4. DonaldP

    first time changing hydraulic fluid

    Mix it with Milk! I used to milk wash the fences when I was a kid. It seemed to work? (But for god sakes don't drink it, I don't think that will work even if you cut it with a copious amounts of really good Russian Vodka.)
  5. DonaldP

    first time changing hydraulic fluid

    I suppose though that the world is not ready for that kind of humor... yet. I am however wondering if the "Woke" out there will start a thread to banish me from TractorByNet for offering some levity. If they need help, I'm sure TractorByNet can get support on how to do this from Twitter...
  6. DonaldP

    Tractors and wood! Show your pics

    Great Photo!!!
  7. DonaldP

    first time changing hydraulic fluid

    Hmmmm, what to do with the oil... We have all seen those liquid streaks on the highway that don't seem to go away when the sun comes out. I suppose if we went onto the dark web we might find a company that does this and will even come to your place to pick up the oil for a fee. There are some...
  8. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    Mike, Thank you soooo much for the discount. But, I'll still need a receipt showing the discount for tax purposes if you could please?
  9. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    Its interesting that I have not seen anything to state the CG of any of this equipment. I can understand why though. Lets say you sell implements and you want to design a front boom articulated mower that will reach at heights of 12 feet or more, or reach into a ditch or pond lower than the...
  10. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    After looking up these numbers I decided check out the comparison for my L3650 HSTC with Cab. --------------------------------MF 245 ------------- L4240 ------------ L4610--------L3560 Cab Wheelbase ..................73 1/8" (74.5") ............(74.6") ..............(71.5")..........(71.1")...
  11. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    Perfect - Great comments from experience, there is nothing better in my book!
  12. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    I saw this after I posted my comments... we are on track here! I agree other than Ground Clearance.... its the Center of gravity (mass) that determines this point. IMO, and to take it to extremes to prove the point... you could have a tractor that is 3" off the ground but have a weighted height...
  13. DonaldP

    Spend my money.

    MF 245/L4240/4610 : from Ops manual (parenthesis is Tractor data.com) Wheelbase 73 1/8" (74.5") (74.6") (71.5") Overall length 116" (126.5") (121.5") (117.5") Width overall...
  14. DonaldP

    Mowing Bent 60” Mower deck

    You are right... it didn't start out the way it ended, I apologize. And, I do support JWR's comments about making sure your Dealer or KTAC agent is doing the work right.
  15. DonaldP

    Mowing Bent 60” Mower deck

    JWR, Your comments are awesome, I agree wholeheartedly on Supervising your Service shop/Dealership. I left a few comments in the past on the dealership I purchased my $52,000 Kubota L3560HSTC cab with Backhoe from Last July (White's Farm Supply Company in Canastota NY), that I was unhappy with...
  16. DonaldP

    Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

    Yes thank you!! All of the above I'm very lucky to have been spared...
  17. DonaldP

    Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

    Really great input here! I do appreciate your doing this as it will help a lot of folks that have question out there. I have about 60% of that slope in a few spots and it concerns me enough that I back up in the same tracks that I enter when i find myself in that situation. So I did some...
  18. DonaldP

    What happens if your hydraulic reservoir is overfilled?

    WaxMan ... are you still in the drivers seat?
  19. DonaldP

    What happens if your hydraulic reservoir is overfilled?

    Use FD&C Green number 4!!! Just in case you end up getting hit the face with some oil from a leaky hose. You would want it to be Food grade dye !!!!
  20. DonaldP

    What happens if your hydraulic reservoir is overfilled?

    I was just checking out the service manual for the L3650 HSTC. In all the documentation I didn't find anywhere, comments related to overfilling and any issues that might cause. From following the Hydraulic schematics, there is nothing there to show that a higher level could, or would cause...
  21. DonaldP

    What happens if your hydraulic reservoir is overfilled?

    hmmm… well to be honest, there wasn’t any “bogus” content, but I’m one of those people that are always reaching for the stars! You have great insight. I appreciate your input here. Don
  22. DonaldP

    3-Point Hitch Need advice on top link height with finishing mower

    I agree… it the top link is “up” it will clear the shaft. But what other issues could it cause ? (Unintended consequences!)
  23. DonaldP

    What happens if your hydraulic reservoir is overfilled?

    I’d like my refund please!!!! 😁
  24. DonaldP

    Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

    This is some awesome experience to share!!!!
  25. DonaldP

    Dealers: how does mahindra do it and why do we pt up with it?

    You are not alone. There are good days, weeks, and years for all businesses, conversely the opposite is also true. Timing is everything. From unit availability, to service, to parts and implements, every dealership goes through this. I believe it’s those that are able to tell you exactly...
  26. DonaldP

    Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

    I agree about your comment of “not reliable” on these guages. I also understand that if I can create a max angle that I would visit, and in that angle I include a good bit of safety for unknown obstacles of whatever % of safety I’m willing to accept, then I would no longer have a fear of...
  27. DonaldP

    Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

    I was seriously thinking of installing one of the Level Guages I use for my sailboat. They work great and I can usually be found at about 28 to 35 degrees if the wind is very stiff in my particular sailboat. But… that’s where a gauge like this stops being a reality. The only way to know at what...
  28. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    I laughed out loud, literally!!!! 😂🤣😂🤣😂 I like this idea, a replaceable cord. If it’s something that can removed or replaced when you don’t need it or when it gets damaged well, that’s the best of both worlds. I had one installed by the dealer at the 20 hour service. Draining the coolant...
  29. DonaldP

    Thumb Backhoe Thumb Finally Arrived!

    Great post!!! The mechanical thumb is awesome. I have found though that my 72” grapple has made it a bit duplicitous though. In retrospect, and not having the experience otherwise, I’m thinking for myself that the best adornment for a backhoe for someone without a grapple is a hydraulic...
  30. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    Pittsburgh!!! I attended an automotive and Diesel school there in the early 80’s. I talked badly of the town as an 18 to 20 year old. 10 years later, after much more life experience I realized how fortunate I was to have experienced one of the cities hit hardest by the export of steel and...
  31. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    Thank you for your feedback beagle ! An awesome and honest response to my posts. The story, when observed from a distance, seems a bit like police - legally escalating a situation that resolves itself in the worst possible outcome for all parties. Or a motorcyclist doing the legal speed limit...
  32. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 3 of 3

    I hear you, thanks for your positive and valuable input. I agree that any “reputable” auto body person could create as good or better results as compared to a factory hood paint job. The question then is why didnt that happen at this dealership. I think we all know the answer. Thanks again !!!
  33. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    It’s 400 hours now… in 12 months…. Got to get the service done this week. I’ll post a link to a YouTube channel where I’ve covered most of my escapades! Not that it would be interesting, but still, there may be some folks that can find some viable takeaways in that content. 😁 Oh, and one...
  34. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    After doing some mowing with a new to me 72” finish mower, I’m beginning to see why a lower CG may become the next big advancement in tractor safety. With all the rage of Cabs these days raising the CG over open stations, I’m beginning to see that there is a trade off that may sprout the...
  35. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    I can’t believe we all forgot the horn!!!! Leave it to you to remind us all how important that is! I reserve my horn use for calling the wife to bring iced tea on hot August afternoons!!! He he he like Pavlov's salivating dog… Oh my god!! I hope she never reads this thread!!!!😮🤭
  36. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    That is so true! You are probably very talented and have the ability to put just about anything you can picture in your mind into practice on your machine. I’m a bit like you, ingenuity is an awesome skill to have for sure. At the same time, I know folks that can’t change out the...
  37. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 3 of 3

    Hi HT, Thank you for your well thought out reply, and ditto to you on personal respects. There is much to be said for honest responses that cover the issue while offering additional insight. I did want to clarify a bit about my post after your comments. I agree that Kubota is working hard to...
  38. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    I am slowly finding that out. Now I probably have 2 Rod Ends that I will never use... but hey, its only $15 and its fixed right! Thanks so much for the feedback!
  39. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    !!! UPDATE !!! YouTube video of this post Its amazing how things sometimes fall into place, if even for the wrong reasons. I attached the BH92 Backhoe yesterday to do a few minor things around the yard. I hadn't used the Backhoe for about 2 weeks. About 10 minutes into cleaning out a...
  40. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    BB, I hear you. Awesome! It’s like spending weekends away from home in a cabin with the bare comforts. There is quality and comfort in stepping back a bit. Having said that, there is question of degree. How far does one step back? An open station, a horse, a hand operated plow….a shovel...
  41. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    Omg!!! When I first read this I thought it said “Warning function”, Then I thought “that’s a great idea to include in the operation of a portable drink cooler in a tractor!, a way to lock it once you’ve had one too many!” 😂🤣😂 But now I need to add the politically correct response…”Drinking...
  42. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    Lol😂🤣😂🤣😂 I knew there was a catch… would I need to remove the orange paint or will the green cover it nicely in several coats? 😁
  43. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    This post is interesting for a few reasons. First, it does expose that there are reasons to take any post or comment on posts here with a grain of salt. Not every post or comment is necessarily free and clear of motivation. Second, these posts or responses to posts may be biased for whatever...
  44. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    Well done! And the support braces along the sides and back attach to what in the rear?
  45. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    I was pretty worried about falling debris on the hood from the loader, (being a newbie at this), so I ordered mine with “Spill-Guard”, a hydraulic self leveling kit for the bucket. One less thing I have to worry about. There are some negatives though… especially when using the grapple.
  46. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    I literally laughed out loud!!! 😂🤣😂🤣😂 Very funny😁 I would have probably at least put a Sponge bob square pants bandaid on it!!!
  47. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    That machine is a monster!!! Awesome! I wonder, would I be able to cut it tight enough to turn it around on my 1 acre?
  48. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    IMO, I believe the L3560 is a show car. Are you saying that the dealer has the right to take that away from me, and that I’m being too picky because they are?
  49. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    That’s a great reply!!!!! Awesome! I’m going to check it out. But I’m afraid for my $250 monthly social security check (or at least what it will be worth after the current spending spree by the government is over… ), it’s a bit out of my range. I’ll have to pretend my Kubota is a Fendt Vario...
  50. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    There are photos of overspray on the sides of the headlamps, inside the hood on the radiator screen and hoses, and the hood support stantions that support the hood when it’s closed.
  51. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    i agree…. I use my L3560 a lot. I have made some pretty bad beginner mistakes, and I’ll make many many more. We can’t plan for everything, just like personal safety, we can’t prevent everything that could get us hurt, but we still try. I was updating my YouTube channel vids and I had just...
  52. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    I’ve been waiting for a post like this. I didn’t want to be the one that brought it up as I might be considered the black sheep among the white here. I believe folks like you and I are a much larger segment today than it has ever been. Look at “Outdoors with the Morgan’s” on YouTube along with...
  53. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    You are way too cool!!! A canvas covered removable canopy! I think Kubota needs your ingenuity 😁
  54. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    No damage to the tractor so far. These were all isolated to either dealer prep or manufacturing issues.
  55. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    Than you for your feedback !!! I hate to be considered “commercial”. For me this is a once in a lifetime purchase of something that costs as much as my first home did. So far this has seemed like a perfect fit in form and function. It reminds me of the story of the high school couple that...
  56. DonaldP

    What if....?

    Your post, and all the replies so far have been wonderful to read. It’s so difficult for anyone to answer your question without sitting in your tractor and being you. 😁 In my opinion, and having said that, just the opportunity of having so many varied folks offer their input is a valuable...
  57. DonaldP

    For the newbies The best creature comfort add-ons to your tractor To consider when buying

    This whole thread has been exceptional ! The wants and desires of folks that know their tractors and use them are not to be taken lightly… even the “Thrush stickers” post brings back great memories!!! Thank you!!!
  58. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Buying a backhoe ?

    Beautifully spoken!!!
  59. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    That's exactly it!!! I said to the service rep... "ok, so then how did we get from a replacement Factory Hood to this?" To which the service manager replied... "This is the Factory Replacement Hood" And of course they blamed the overspray on the engine and other components on the $52,000...
  60. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    Beautiful Machine... love the lines!!! Thank you for your feedback. And just out of curiosity if someone walked up to your new mini X and built a fire next to it would you just accept that? You bought the Mini X with a bashed in side you opted for that. You didn't opt for someone else trashing...
  61. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    Yes, Thank you for your feedback. I do appreciate it. They didn't "give" me anything. It was done via Kubota Warranty. The 50 hour service was about $600. I paid for that It included an oil change and filters. The Kubota Warranty Rep paid for the 200 hour service I believe and the Dealer paid...
  62. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    I so much appreciate your comments, and thank you for sharing your input. I thought about that. I wondered just how picky I was being. I suppose I could have bought a show car (tractor)... I thought I was doing that when I bought a Kubota Grand L3650 with a Cab. I guess that just goes to...
  63. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    Thank you for your input. As far as anything wrong with the tractor there isn't really much besides the basic things Ive discussed. but still your point is there was a lot of money put into this machine (or will be) and for that even though Kubota is stepping up as well as they can, the...
  64. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    I apologize.... It shows the differences between a factory paint job and the pseudo factory paint job the dealership was trying to pass off on me. it appears that if the dealer were to get a new hood, that's what I would get right? not a painted hood with an orange peel finish. This was a...
  65. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    That's true. But these things were pointed out to the dealership while the tractor was still on their lot at the time I picked it up. Photos were 90% taken while the tractor was still on the lot after the services..
  66. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Buying a backhoe ?

    14 years... Ive had mine for 8 months and Im at the 400 hour service already. Its just beyond me to purchase and not use. and this is for myself, not contracting.
  67. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    This Tractor had 6 hours on it when it left the lot new.
  68. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    The leak was major. I lost 8 gallons in the 1 or so minutes before I realized that the stuff falling on my tractor wasn't rain!
  69. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    There were 3 services in all during this 50, 200, and a 300
  70. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 3 of 3

    (Continued ) So what happened between the time that the Kubota Service Rep saw the factory hood placed on the tractor and the time I picked the tractor up a week later? I'm afraid nobody knows, or nobody is talking. The hood could have been damage caused when reinstalling the FEL after...
  71. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 2 of 3

    There was an appointment to have the L3560 looked at with the Service Rep, myself and the dealership service manager and the Dealer Tech. The parts necessary as noted by the Kubota Service Rep were ordered, came in and I was asked to bring my tractor in again at about 300 hours to have those...
  72. DonaldP

    Authorized Kubota Warranty Service Provider? Part 1 of 3

    Part ONE of Two - (or 3 ?) I had read some interesting comments in the LS Thread here about the responsibilities of a Tractor or Equipment Dealership and how the roles between a dealership and the manufacturer (in this case Kubota) might play out in various situations where liability or...
  73. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Buying a backhoe ?

    I have often wondered how machines that state low hours are able to be passed as such. Replacement of the hour meter would be the culprit. carfacts has an awesome tool for managing that kind of an issue with std vehicles… sad they don’t track tractors that way. I suppose the best way...
  74. DonaldP

    Value of a Kubota down the road

    Well put!!!!
  75. DonaldP

    Value of a Kubota down the road

    You are soooo right! Life is that way. I’m there myself in many ways. I think I just got carried away with the fact that someone bought and sold it under the guise of loosing very little money on their investment, when actually the use of the machine was outside of the average consumers...
  76. DonaldP

    Value of a Kubota down the road

    With respect to to hours ona machine and Step… …. I’ve had my 3650 since July 22, 2020… I have 367 hours on it. I’m not a contractor. This is my personal machine. I suppose that I’m finding way too many things to do with the 3650 and I’m using it and gaining experience with it. I have more...
  77. DonaldP

    Value of a Kubota down the road

    Rick, thank you for responding withe obvious. I love when folks reply with “the rest of the story”. 1 to 2 % per year… that’s 9 years for Step’s machine, or 12 to 13 percent. MSRP in 2012 was $23165, now it’s $26931 plus $1200 for the 3rd function. I’m not thinking that maintenance was...
  78. DonaldP

    Thoughts on Pricing - Selling my L3901

    Daniel, I question the Kubota brand viability of “top resell value”. In my review of used Vs new equip I found that nearly all the dealers I spoke with about used Kubotas were asking a lot for them. These machines were not anything special (in my opinion), but it was important to note that...
  79. DonaldP

    Thoughts on Pricing - Selling my L3901

    KK, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post! There is a really big difference in feedback that’s based on experience. Thanks for responding.
  80. DonaldP

    Issues already? New mx5400 steering issue.

    Yes I understand, I’ll have to verify if that issue occurs just seconds after lifting a load while it’s in standstill, or while lifting the load and turning, in reverse to back out of picking up the load. Thank you
  81. DonaldP

    Repo

    Honesty and integrity is what life is all about .. for most people. Kubota trusted you and in turn you trusted them to deliver a solid well performing technically proficient product. So now, who is the first party to hiccup in this deal of trust and honesty…the very trust and honesty that...
  82. DonaldP

    Out of the norm question

    A man lift… what height ? I can get to 15 ft with a $600 fork lift attachment. It’s a 4’x4’ work platform… but if your going higher than that then a man lift of some type is necessary. good luck
  83. DonaldP

    Kubota L6060?

    Got Photos?
  84. DonaldP

    Issues already? New mx5400 steering issue.

    Been there done that… new l3659 HSTC 100 hours I noticed the sane thing. A trip to the dealer to see the Kubota rep. Texted all pressures for steering and ever thing was nominal. What this tells me is that on the newer tractors, at least in this soze range, the Blk be bodies that split up...
  85. DonaldP

    Kubota L6060?

    Hello!!! I was a day away from purchasing g an 1500 hour L3450 woth mid PTO and turf tires. A friend said why spend the cash on something used that you don’t know anything about when you can buy new at 0%? So I hit the local dealer and bought new. Minutes away from signing the paperwork for a...
  86. DonaldP

    Kubota L6060?

    3rd function skid plate… the dealer installed Kubota step mount 3rd function routes the cables to the rear of the third function under the cross member for the gas tank instead of over it creating a very bad pinch point for the hoses that feed the 3rd function circuit. Was this an off the...
  87. DonaldP

    How do you know when the ground is settled enough for concrete?

    I was working with an engineering firm for a commercial project that included an 80 x 150 ft slab for a restaurant. After soil testing they found it to be not capable in its current form to support a floating concrete pad/building of that weight load. What they ended up approving was a 6’...
  88. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Kubota new L3560 grand

    Plus... I can use the L3560 to build the barn! I was pricing a tool to lift the trusses into place for the front end loader. Someone purchased that manual telescoping boom for the L3560 and use dot to lift the trusses into place for their garage so I’m sure it will do the trick. I think the...
  89. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Kubota new L3560 grand

    Mike, I wished I could have gotten a garage done before I got the tractor but financially it would have been a bear even short term. I have a lean to that I configured off of the end of one of my two 10’x22’ wood sheds. It’s got a 10’ height and covers the entire tractor to protect it from...
  90. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Kubota new L3560 grand

    A garage/Barn!!! Awesome!!! I just leveled off and area next to my house for mine. im limited in size due to the small property I’m on, but I’m thinking a 32x40..... wider is so much better like a 40, but I just am out of space and can’t swing it. As it is I have to pill down a 125 year old or...
  91. DonaldP

    Choosing between sub-compact and compact options.

    Hi... I have 1 acre... I also Purchased a 3560 HSTC cab last fall. So- I am telling myself every day that I’m sooooo glad I bought up in class and weight. But I have R4 tires, and the weight of this thing absolutely tears up grass when it’s soggy out. I think if I had the turf tires, it...
  92. DonaldP

    I WANT A TRACTOR, but ......

    Lol!!! That is so true!
  93. DonaldP

    L805/L4060 real life lifting capacity

    Been there, done that... I was lucky to have decided on a bit bigger tractor on the first trip around (where many first timers have under estimated their inevitable and eventually growing needs) with the L3650 Grand L with LA805 and BH92 over the LX or L2501 (or larger HP in those same basic...
  94. DonaldP

    Buying Advice Kubota new L3560 grand

    I started looking in Aug of 2019, and I finally purchased in March 2020 with a delivery in mid July of 2020. YES, in the middle of Covid. After 7 months of use, half a summer, and most of a winter, 50, 100 and 200 hours services, I can share that my experience with this purchase has been a...
  95. DonaldP

    Tractor Sizing Now I stepped in it, I need everything

    Jeff!!! Beautifully put! I was in similar circumstances as this gentleman sans acreage! (He he he) but still, after much tribulation (self education from never having used or owned or EVER used anything bigger than a 17HP Cub Cadet Lawn mower), I ventured into the Tractor landscape with...
  96. DonaldP

    Tractor Sizing Now I stepped in it, I need everything

    John; What wealth there is in your response and advice. Thank you! Its not just horsepower in life (or tractors), but its the way we live and by what means we do so. I don't EVER forget where I have come from. Every day I am in wonderment that I have the ability to take this time, TODAY, to...
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