$1,200 Head

[Anonymous Poster]

$1,200 Head

I just delivered a Kubota bare cast cylinder head to a tractor store today and it cost 1,200 dollars, without valves, or labor YIKES!!. I got a chance to talk to the mechanic and he said it was probably caused by the owner putting a moisture remover additive like HEAT. OK , now I am worried because I just got finished putting a bottle of that stuff in my tank. Does anyone know for sure if you can safely run that stuff? The mechanic suggested that I drain the tank.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

What was the problem with the head? (e.g. cracked, warped, etc.)

I find that hard to believe that something explicitly manufactured to put in your tank would do that. I'm not saying there has never been anything maufactured for a specific purpose that did more harm than good, but if it did commonly cause problems like you describe, I doubt whoever makes it would still be in business due to reputation/lawsuits.

What does the back of the bottle say? I know some products for cars/trucks give warnings about the O2 sensor, but have never said any warning about screwing up big pieces of metal like you describe.

Any chemical engineers out there to explain how it could essentially ruin an engine? (could it increase combustion temps or something like that?)

 

[HalseyGreen]

Re: $1,200 Head

Being my JD790 is my third diesel, I have always been told not to use any alcohol based fuel additives with the diesel fuel. I always though it was because it did something to the seals. I was later informed that it permitted the water to pass through the filters and get to the injectors, where it would vaporize due to the heat and blow off the end of the injector. I guess the small pieces of injector tips could damage the piston and head if it was floating around during combustion. Other that that, I would love to know what caused the damage.

 

[GaryK]

Re: $1,200 Head

I don't put anything in my Jd unless JD makes it. First if they don't make it, it probably dosen't need it, secondly if something does go wrong the warranty could be voided.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

HalseyGreen -
I found a pretty detailed article regarding how these water-removers work (put out by one of the maufacturers). Of course, they talk about why their brand is "better", but seems to make some logical sence. They talk about how the H20 passes through the filters, how additives affect the seals, injectors & such.

http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/wtrremti.htm


Putty -
Went to the GoldEagle website (makers of HEET) - they make a gasoline product and a diesel product (I didn't know they made multiple flavors.) You say that you put a bottle in - you got a diesel or gas tractor?

http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/dieslgel.htm
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/gasline.htm

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: $1,200 Head

My tractor is a diesel ,I am still considering draining the fuel, when I looked on the bottle and it did'nt specify that it was for diesel or gas. The machanic said that any alcohol additive makes the fuel more volitile which is'nt a problem with a low compression spark ignited gas engine, but causes trouble with a diesel that ignites from compression. The diesel was a newer Kubota and he said the valve seats were cracked, his only guess as to why was because the owner said he ran water remover in his fuel.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

Hmmm -

Looking at the pictures on HEETs web sites, if the bottle didn't have diesel specifically marked, I bet you got the stuff made for gasoline in your tractor tank (I didn't see anything on the bottle that said for "not for diesels" either - which is kindof dumb since they imply that on the web site but fail to mention it on the bottle).

I still have the same opinion that if the stuff was specifically made for diesels, it probably wouldn't hurt anything. But it sounds like that may not be the case for you based on the bottle/web site info. It might shoot through with no issue, but personally I'd probably drain the tank.

Hmmm, now what to do with all that diesel.....

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

Instead of speculating, I took the liberty of writing an e-mail to the folks at Gold Eagle to ask about their products and what could be used in what (hope you don't mind). Kindof figured it might be good to go straight to the source on this one. Here's a copy of their reply...

"Thanks for writing. Here's the deal: Our regular HEET product (yellow bottle --Gasline Antifreeze and Water Remover HA55120) can only be used in 4 cycle gasoline engines, due to the methyl alcohol contained in the product. However, our Iso-HEET (Red Bottle--HA55360) contains isopropyl alcohol which can be used in any 2 cycle (oil/gas mix), or 4 cycle gasoline or diesel engine. Yes, the website doesn't really explain that very well; we are in the process of updating our website, so we will take your note into consideration.. Hope this information helps you, and thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,

Gold Eagle"

 

[bgott]

Re: $1,200 Head

Find a plastic drum, I like the translucent ones, and drain your tank into that. Let it set over night so the water and trash can settle out and then pump the clear fuel off the top. You have to realize that the fuel you buy has trash and condensation in it, it settles in the storage tank and the pickup tube for the pump is a few inches off the bottom for the same reason. Just remember to never buy fuel during or after a drop, the fuel dropping to the bottom of the storage tank kicks the water and trash up from the bottom and mixes it up with the fresh fuel.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: $1,200 Head

Well I finally got around to talking with the Kubota dealer about the additive and he did'nt seem to think it would hurt it, he also said he thought that all those additives were "snake oil" and a waste of money. I don't know either way, so I drained the fuel. I was due a fuel filter change anyway and just let it drain through the filter addapter , I did purge the air out of the addapter but not the other end - it took a few cranks to get it started. Lesson learned I guess/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

Although I'm sure it was a pain, at least now you have peace-of-mind!

 

[Darren]

Re: $1,200 Head

If you're concerned about water getting into your diesel whether from condensation or getting pumped in with the fuel, there's a simple solution. Install a water separator between the fuel tank and the injection pump.

Units like those made by Racor include the head which a filter screws into from the bottom and a clear bowl which screws onto the bottom of the filter. You can see if water is in the fuel because it will accumulate in the bowl. You can unscrew a fitting in the bottom of the bowl to drain the water.

The units also have a small pump in the head which you can use to pressurize the fuel lines for a faster start. Unit are available to fit any size diesel engine.

 

[RanchMan]

Re: $1,200 Head

That's a good idea. What kindof price range are we talking about to fit a ~40 HP tractor? Any recommendations on where to get one via the net?

-Tnx

 

[Darren]

Re: $1,200 Head

Ballpark, I think they're around $100. The ones for large engines can be several hundred. I've bought them off ebay.
There is a webpage that shows the various models.

Places that sell or service marine engines also should either have them or be able to order them. You'll need to match the Racor unit to the fuel flow rate for your engine.

 

[wklopf]

Re: $1,200 Head

I recently attended a farm machinery show where someone had a booth promoting e-diesel. I was in a hurry and didn't stop. Besides, many years back I was involved in research on biodiesel and wasn't too interested in this new competition. E-diesel is a blend of ethanol and petroleum-derived diesel fuel. I don't know what percentage, but you can find a brief explanation at www.ott.doe.gov/biofuels/what_is_renewable_diesel.html. Doe is the Department of Energy. So, someone must think it is safe to run fuels containing alcohol (ethanol at least) in diesel engines.