1538 with BH - what is needed for a 3 pt top and tilt

[LowellBen]

Took me a while to find the valve you had selected on Summit's website, P40G-3K16. Yes, those two items would get you started for a 3 valve setup with float on all three. Picture threw me off also as what they put there is for a solenoid valve. I see that the power beyond adapter is once again on back order. I had to wait nearly a month for them to ship mine. The tech rep I spoke with said that the adapter comes from a country near Ukraine, all though he declined to say what country. Don't know why they can't source such a thing here in the States.

I mounted my valve horizontally which resulted in a non-optimal hose config. Mounting the valve vertically would result in a cleaner hose setup, but the levers would have been too high for my liking. Also, I built my mounting bracket so that it hung off to the inside of the ROPS. By the time you have the PB adapter on the valve and a 90 deg fitting, that plumbing interferes with the seat when you swivel it for BH ops. There was enough play in the seat mount to get it to clear the fittings - barely. I was too lazy to cut off the mounting plate for the valve attachment and reposition it. Offsetting it an inch outboard would have taken care of the clearance issue for me. Your using a 3 valve would need a larger offset to clear the seat swiveling.

I don't recall how much in total I spent on my two valve setup. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $1k by the time you include hoses, fittings, couplers, etc along with the cylinders and valve.

You can find Chinese knockoffs on Amazon for some of the Summit valves. Who knows, maybe the Summit valves are made in China.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just keep in mind that it seems like most of the economy control valves have internal leakage issues and those issues are not warranted, they are considered "within spec". So if you want to go the economy route, expect issues. This is what you are looking at when you consider these valves. The valves that you are looking at here are among the cheaper version of things.

A 3 valve set from me would be about $1400. But all you would need are the 3 hoses & a tee fitting for the return to tank line.
That includes the mount, the 3 valves, 2 with the float feature, the 3 supply line port adaptor fittings, poppet couplers, male & female with 2-way sleeves, caps & plugs.

Do you have a press & dies to bend the 1/4" steel plate?

Good luck with your project.

 

[ADKMax26]

Lowellben,


Could you possibly post a picture of your setup? Just wondering how you mounted your valve. Right now I am thinking this will be a multi month build to spread the cost out. Buying a few pieces here and there. I did see a YouTube video on switching the handle mount around. That seems like it would be a bit easier to mount the valve from summit and run the lines a bit easier. I really appreciate the help so far from both lowellben and mtnviewranch.

 

[LowellBen]

I started off by determining where I wanted the control levers to be, then worked things backwards. For these pictures, the BH is mounted so I did not include pictures of the supply hoses being connected to the valve.

Also, I don't know about your 1533, but on my 1538 the hydraulics bleed down pretty quickly, like within hours. I learned the hard way to block the BH when I have it off of the tractor. Otherwise things bleed off and the BH settles to the ground. Same way with the loader. I try to set the bucket so that it doesn't collect water inside, but sometimes I don't do it quite right. The next day the bucket has rotated and settled so that it collects water the next rain. I've probably got about 8 hours of operation with the Summit valve in the hydraulic loop and haven't had an issue with bleed down.

 

[LowellBen]

I fab'd the bracket from Home Depot steel and welded them together with a Harbor Freight MIG welder. I thought I might have a nice arm rest, but things get way too hot once hydraulic fluid has been running through the system for a while. Will probably come up with some sort of pad.

 

[LowellBen]

Back again

After a big snow this last spring, I bought a snow/dirt blade to mount up to the SSQA on the front of the tractor. It has a cylinder to change the angle of the blade. Since I never plan on having the top/tilt hardware on while running the front blade, I use one of the top/tilt line sets to run the blade. But now I have even more hoses hanging around - I need to simplify things on the back of the tractor.

In what I'm calling the stock config - the tractor hydraulics are connected to the BH with 3 hoses, Pressure, Power Beyond and Return. The Power Beyond runs the 3 PH.

When the BH is removed -the Pressure and Power Beyond hoses are connected together so that the 3PH functions.

In the top/tilt config and of course the BH is off - the tractor's Pressure, Power Beyond, and return hoses are connected to the remote. The remote is running the top/tilt cylinders and the 3 PH is powered with the Power Beyond hose.

Connecting, disconnecting, reconnecting when the BH is removed and reattached is a hassle. I would like to do some kind of manifold or a manually controlled hydraulic switch on the back of the tractor to be able to switch between the rear remote and the BH. But I don't know how the BH and the remote work internally.

Can I run parallel hydraulic circuits so that the BH and remote lines have hydraulic pressure at the same time? Or does the BH, remote (and as tail end charlie) the 3PH have to be fed in series?

End goal is to have the remote powered all the time and when I disconnect the BH, I'm just doing 3 hoses.

Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Thanks,
Lowell

 

[MtnViewRanch]

This is very simple, in front of the supply line mount at the rear of the tractor, route the supply side hose up to the in-pressure side of your rear remotes. From the power beyond side of the rear remotes, run that back down to the supply side, (previously disconnected) this provides the fluid flow a constant path of flow and you continue to hook up the backhoe as from the factory.
I assume that you already have the return-to-tank lines connected with a tee. If not, then connect the return to tank line with a tee.

This eliminates the hassle of connecting and disconnecting the supply line hoses for the rear remotes. The rear remotes are always in the loop from this point forward.

 

[LowellBen]

Hey Brian, thanks for the reply and good to hear from you again.

I have not as yet connected the return lines with a tee. Was kind of unsure whether or not something would get backfed. So what I've been doing is connecting the tractor supply lines to the remote when I want to use the top/tilt and then using the PB off of the remote to power the 3PH. When the BH is in use, the remote is completely disconnected.

So let me try to re-phrase to see if I understand you. Starting with everything disconnected; BH, remote and 3PH. There are 3 hoses ending in QDs sticking out coming off of the bracket on the right rear of the tractor that service the BH. I should run the Supply (P) hose to the remote. Then the PB line off of the remote is run back down to where the Supply (P) line was originally mounted. For the remote return, I need to tee that into the tractor return line that is on the front side of the QD bracket that services the BH. The remote is then continuously powered. The BH can then be hooked up via the QDs as it came from the factory.

I think the light is coming on.

A question - Since I'm running the BH supply through the remote, do I lose any power at the BH? The manifolds and lines already get pretty hot when I'm working the BH hard.

Then when the BH is off, I still need to interconnect the two usual hoses at the back to get power to the 3 PH.

Am I understanding things correctly?

I found out the hard way once that the 3 PH was powered when the BH is attached. I accidentally moved the 3 PH lever and bent the heck out of the foot rest plate for the BH. I really dislike how the BH hydraulics are configured on this tractor. It is hard to get at the QDs when the BH is being disconnected or connected. I need to figure out a way of unburying things. Have already cut a section out of the BH foot plate to get more room to access the QDs. The videos make things look easy cause they are working off of a concrete shop floor. I'm working on a gravel lot and most of the time it is difficult to get things to line up.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The valve should have a larger flow capacity than what your tractor puts out, so no this should not affect the operation of the backhoe at all.
As far as how hot the oil gets, it's common to be 160*-180*, so yes the valve is going to get hot to the touch.

Yes, the backhoe supply lines will still need to be connected to each other when the hoe is not on the tractor.

 

[LowellBen]

Thanks Brian

I went down to the tractor to take a look at how the hoses are routed. Deja vu cause I had to figure this all out when I did the remote and the brain cells that were supposed to hold that info have since died. Appears I will have to splice in an extension to get the Supply up to the remote. Might have enough hose to get the return from the remote down to the to be installed tee on the tractor return hose. The PB/Supply hose to the bracket will have to be made up also. Will probably dismount the BH so that it is easier to get at everything.

I don't understand why Mahindra routed the hydraulics as they did. The PB coming off of the FEL valve block makes sense. The return line from the BH connections appears to go all the way forward to a port on the FEL valve block. Then the Supply for the 3 PH goes from the BH connection bracket via a hose to under the brake pedal area, does a 180 via fittings, transitions to a pipe, then runs back to the differential area then up to someplace under the seat. Guess since the BH is an option, that part of the plumbing for the BH had to be integrated in where they thought it made the most sense.

Tomorrow morning when it is cooler out, I'll take things apart enough to figure out what fittings and hoses I need. Then place an order through Summit or Discount Hydraulics.