1700 Caught COVID (barely starts)

[vroomZOOM]

Haven't been here for a while, but my 1700 has started having starting problems. Came on here, and just coincidentally there is another no start 1700 here... i guess the tractors caught omicron Anyways, I went to start it yesterday, and after heating up the glow plugs for about 30 seconds (indicator bright red). It cranked and cranked and cranked. When I started cranking, it was giving white smoke, and it sort of was firing, but not enough to get it sustaining on its own. After about a minute or so of cranking the battery finally died. Anyone have any ideas why it sort of fires but just can't seem to get going? I then took every single battery out of the basement and hooked them all up parallel. That gave it enough juice to finally fire. Today I turned the key to the start position, and all I heard was a loud click. I put it in gear and rocked it some, and then the starter turned it over and just as the battery was going flat, it finally spooled up.

What I am thinking here (need your help on which one it is, I haven't really worked on diesels b/c they don't break that often)

Bad glow plug?
Bad/weak starter?
Bad key switch?
Bad injectors?
Bad injection pump?
Bad main battery wiring?

Here is a video of me starting it from yesterday:

From what i have seen, it should self sustain as soon as it spins over, even when cold...

Thanks in advance!

 

[Roadworthy]

It sounds like a weak battery for sure. Charge battery and have it load tested. Clean terminals and cable ends. Replace cables onto battery terminals and tighten securely. If you can move they they're not secure. Follow ground cable to frame. Clean and tighten securely. You may have other problems but this is the starting point for any troubleshooting.

 

[JC-jetro]

Haven't been here for a while, but my 1700 has started having starting problems. Came on here, and just coincidentally there is another no start 1700 here... i guess the tractors caught omicron Anyways, I went to start it yesterday, and after heating up the glow plugs for about 30 seconds (indicator bright red). It cranked and cranked and cranked. When I started cranking, it was giving white smoke, and it sort of was firing, but not enough to get it sustaining on its own. After about a minute or so of cranking the battery finally died. Anyone have any ideas why it sort of fires but just can't seem to get going? I then took every single battery out of the basement and hooked them all up parallel. That gave it enough juice to finally fire. Today I turned the key to the start position, and all I heard was a loud click. I put it in gear and rocked it some, and then the starter turned it over and just as the battery was going flat, it finally spooled up.

What I am thinking here (need your help on which one it is, I haven't really worked on diesels b/c they don't break that often)

Bad glow plug?
Bad/weak starter?
Bad key switch?
Bad injectors?
Bad injection pump?
Bad main battery wiring?

Here is a video of me starting it from yesterday:

From what i have seen, it should self sustain as soon as it spins over, even when cold...

Thanks in advance!

First of all make sure don't use any Clorox in any form or fashion as a remedy,

1- See if you get voltage to glow plug. See if glow plug is open by getting resistance of against the block. it should read about 1.5 ohm and not infinity. Does the glow plug indicator glows red?
2- May be but don't think so. with the battery off take the red lead of the starter and wire brush and contact surfaced for now. You can do it on the solenoid as well. Take a pic for reference or do one wire at a time. A dremel tool and wire brush works great.
3- I don't think key switch is bad as as it would not even attempt to start.
4-May be but too early to rule that. Did you by any chance get any air in to the line by loosening injector line, fuel filter change or running out of fuel/
5- maybe with high unlikelihood, did you mess with injector timing?
6-Battery terminal has high likelihood but perhaps not the wire itself. With battery out, loosen and clean all the contact specially the ground negative contact.

I think you r problem is a battery. You need a group 24 battery, get something with a bit more CCA. Neverstart from Wally word has their 3 year battery for $100, as I bought one last week. It was bone numbing cold is Kansas last week and my battery declined to comply.

Report back and will see what else we can come up.


Just watched the video. continuous cranking like that could destroy the starter. preheat more, crank a bit less. Smoke is indication of un-burnt fuel. your problem appears to be battery.

 

[kirkawilson]

Here are some things to check. Also, be sure your diesel fuel is good.

https://thrivingyard.com/diesel-tractor-stalling/

 

[vroomZOOM]

First of all make sure don't use any Clorox in any form or fashion as a remedy,

1- See if you get voltage to glow plug. See if glow plug is open by getting resistance of against the block. it should read about 1.5 ohm and not infinity. Does the glow plug indicator glows red?
2- May be but don't think so. with the battery off take the red lead of the starter and wire brush and contact surfaced for now. You can do it on the solenoid as well. Take a pic for reference or do one wire at a time. A dremel tool and wire brush works great.
3- I don't think key switch is bad as as it would not even attempt to start.
4-May be but too early to rule that. Did you by any chance get any air in to the line by loosening injector line, fuel filter change or running out of fuel/
5- maybe with high unlikelihood, did you mess with injector timing?
6-Battery terminal has high likelihood but perhaps not the wire itself. With battery out, loosen and clean all the contact specially the ground negative contact.

I think you r problem is a battery. You need a group 24 battery, get something with a bit more CCA. Neverstart from Wally word has their 3 year battery for $100, as I bought one last week. It was bone numbing cold is Kansas last week and my battery declined to comply.

Report back and will see what else we can come up.


Just watched the video. continuous cranking like that could destroy the starter. preheat more, crank a bit less. Smoke is indication of un-burnt fuel. your problem appears to be battery.

So basically what you are saying is that it should crank much faster, right? The video was with 3 good batteries hooked up. The battery I have is a semi truck cranking battery, i think its a 27. When the battery was new, it still cranked just about as fast. Sure, the battery had a lot more capacity, so I could crank for 2 minutes as opposed to 1, but something is still not right here.

Another thing I just noticed is the solder on the lug on the bare wire going into the starter from the solenoid was melting, seems like yesterday. I definitely have a bad connection it seems.

I am just trying to get a feel of how fast it should crank, and how long until it fires off on its own. I will check the glow plugs today. I have a feeling that it might be heating up only 1 cylinder and not the other, and just can't get running only on 1 cylinder. I will pull them and see if they heat up.

Thanks for the help!

 

[JC-jetro]

e heating up only 1 cylinder and not the other, and just can't get running only on 1 cylinder. I will pull them and see if they heat up.

Thanks for the help!

So basically what you are saying is that it should crank much faster, right? The video was with 3 good batteries hooked up. The battery I have is a semi truck cranking battery, i think its a 27. When the battery was new, it still cranked just about as fast. Sure, the battery had a lot more capacity, so I could crank for 2 minutes as opposed to 1, but something is still not right here.
let just see how combustion happens in diesel. It happens by heat of compression. Diesel engine overall have a higher combustion ratio.
Now if crank is slow due to starter not being strong, bad electrical connection then fuel in entered but rate of compression is slow where the fuel does not ignite. As you keep cranking the fuel keeps entering the combustion chamber and no longer might be atomized so it is harder for it to combust. Sort of like a flooded carb that float is stuck open. So it is better to have the environment better for combustion by a bit longer glow plugging and then a few strong cranks. On the video you kept on cranking so I am worried that might burn your starter or wires or connection going to starter due to high amps being drawn and heat generated. I have not had to use it yet but maybe a block heater in the very cold might assist with starting. Once it start adjust the rpm enough so that it would run without hesitation and let the tractor warm up some before you move it.

Another thing I just noticed is the solder on the lug on the bare wire going into the starter from the solenoid was melting, seems like yesterday. I definitely have a bad connection it seems.

Again that goes back to my first point, solder is melting due to continuous high amp draw than high heat generated. Again , better solder melting that you can fix easy than wires in the starter.

I am just trying to get a feel of how fast it should crank, and how long until it fires off on its own. I will check the glow plugs today. I have a feeling that it might be heating up only 1 cylinder and not the other, and just can't get running only on 1 cylinder. I will pull them and see if they heat up.

Your cranking speed is not function of what you do, it is the function of how much juice your battery has. What you have control is how long you let it crank. I never crank more than 3 or 4 engine rotations. I wait a a minute or so for things to chill out before attempting to crank and that is just to save my starter. Check your pr-heat glow plug as it might be faulty . I gave instruction in one of my earlier comments. Check for the vent on the fuel cap or have it slightly loose when it struggle to keep going and see if there is a difference. Your tank is atmospherically vented (it has a vent hole) . if the hole is not open then you have vacuum there and the injector pump would have hard time to pump against the vacuum.

 

[barbqranch]

If you can get a second person to help, have them measure the voltage at the starter when you try to crank it. I also agree you shouldn't crank so long, it can ruin the starter and other parts.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

If you can get a second person to help, have them measure the voltage at the starter when you try to crank it. I also agree you shouldn't crank so long, it can ruin the starter and other parts.

I have been told thirty seconds is the max, then give it a rest.
The OP doesn't have his location in his profile, so I have to wonder what the temperature was when he was trying to start the machine. My 1715 will start down to about 20, but below that cranking doesn't generate enough heat for it to fire.
Listening to it start, it is either turning over way to slow or two of three cylinders have week compression, I think it is the former rather than the latter.
My 1715 takes a cold idle of about 1200 RPM to keep running after starting at any temperature much below 50 until it is at least partially warmed up.
Your issue could be the starter or solenoid too. I'd do all the terminal cleaning others have mentioned and if the problem persists you might have to work on that. I just replaced my starter a few weeks ago. I looked up the starter for a 1700 and it's three times the price but I don't know why, they are both 3 cylinder Shibaru engines. If it turns out to be the starter consider taking it to a rebuild shop as the Ebay price seems to be $260, mine was $73.

 

[JC-jetro]

1700 is actually 2 cylinder engine tractor. Not a Johnny popper, just wondered if they had a name for Ford/Shibaura 2 cylinder engine!

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

1700 is actually 2 cylinder engine tractor. Not a Johnny popper, just wondered if they had a name for Ford/Shibaura 2 cylinder engine!

It sort of sounded like a Johnny popper when it first started. I had assumed all of the 1700 series were 3 cylinder, learned something new.