on my 20HP Nortrac when its cold my bucket and 3 pt hitch wont move , but if i move the steering wheel right or left a little , at the same time as i use the lever on the 3 pt hitch or bucket , they start to move , any idea why this is doing this ,after its run about 5 min. its fine , and one more thing when i start the tractor cold , i hold the glow plugs on , it trys to start, kicking and bucking , i have to do that about 3 or 4 times with the glow plugs on for about 1 min. , then it will start and run real slow , so at the same time its running slow , i hold the glow plugs on and then it will then stat to build up till its running fine . PC Checked the glow plugs there working as they should.
20 HP Nortrac trouble
- Thread starter Frankm
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greg_g
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The usual reason for the slow hydraulics is incorrect fluid in the hydraulic sump. These tractors are shipped with some pretty horrible stuff in them; hydraulics, transmissions, differentials, engines, cooling systems, the lot. I thought Northern flushed their tractors and replaced the fluids as part of the "dealer prep", but they may have missed the hydraulics on yours. The fill/vent is behind the seat, and should have a little dipstick on it. Good hydraulic fluid should look almost like water, and be nearly as thin. If you've got some thick yellow/green/brown crap oozing off the dipstick instead, that's your problem. Drain it out, flush the system with kerosene, refill with proper AW32 hydraulic fluid - available at any auto parts or farm store.
I'm guessing you never owned a diesel before. You've described the typical cold start woes expressed by nearly all new 200 series Jinma owners. There are several approaches, you can try any or all. First, make sure you've set the hand throttle about half way when you first start a cold engine. Then glow for no more than 30 seconds. Then crank for no more than 20 seconds. Repeat as required. The colder it is outside, the more times you may have to do this. When the engine finally catches on one or two cylinders, turn the keyswitch to the HEAT position again. That will turn the glow plugs back on and aid in getting all 3 cylinders detonating.
Many folks install supplemental engine heaters, I personally prefer the oil pan heater. But some Jinmas have ribbed oil pans, so that's not a practical solution. Other owners prefer water heaters that install in the lower radiator hose. You may also want to consider electrical relays for the glow plugs and/or the starter solenoid.
//greg//
I'm guessing you never owned a diesel before. You've described the typical cold start woes expressed by nearly all new 200 series Jinma owners. There are several approaches, you can try any or all. First, make sure you've set the hand throttle about half way when you first start a cold engine. Then glow for no more than 30 seconds. Then crank for no more than 20 seconds. Repeat as required. The colder it is outside, the more times you may have to do this. When the engine finally catches on one or two cylinders, turn the keyswitch to the HEAT position again. That will turn the glow plugs back on and aid in getting all 3 cylinders detonating.
Many folks install supplemental engine heaters, I personally prefer the oil pan heater. But some Jinmas have ribbed oil pans, so that's not a practical solution. Other owners prefer water heaters that install in the lower radiator hose. You may also want to consider electrical relays for the glow plugs and/or the starter solenoid.
//greg//
i do have the AW32 hydraulic fluid in the tractor , i was thinking that the valve may be bad that deverts the fluid , being that when i turn the steering wheel a little left or right , the 3 point hitch and the bucket start to work .
greg_g
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Well, that's a possibility. But doing that also helps heat the hydraulic fluid faster. If the problem goes away when the tractor warms up, the divertor valve is probably ok.Frankm said:
Do you know about the hydraulic fluid suction strainer inside the lift box? If that becomes obstructed for any reason (dirt/sludge/water/collapse), hydraulic flow can be impeded when the fluid is cold and comparatively thick. Or is yours outfitted with an external hydraulic filtration system?
//greg//
RonMar
Elite Member
Well it could be the diverter valve. Have you taken it apart to inspect it? it is really a simple component and is easilly removed. If one of the passages has some junk in it, it could be hanging up. Another issue is that you may have a loose connection on the suction line between pump and reservoir. The steering valve at the bottom of the steering column is also a vane pump. The added suction applied to the main pump outlet when you turn the wheel could be aiding it in priming. Have you noticed any erattic action on the loader or 3PH? This is also a sign of air in the system.
As for starting when cold, your glowplugs may be OK now, but they won't be if you keep up the starting practice you described. Neither will the starter with 3-4 start attempts for each actual start. One thing that makes a huge difference in start performance, but is not readilly noticible while cranking is the charge state of the battery.
First off, the cold saps the batterys energy, and makes the glow plugs not make as much heat as they normally would. This in a very cold engine reduces their pre-heat effectiveness even further. The reduction in battery energy also leads to a slight reduction in crank RPM and ultimate piston velocity. A slower piston speed compresses the air slower and leaves more time for the cylinder and head to absorb the heat generated and a results in a final lower temp air pocket that the cold fuel is sprayed into. The result is the poor or no detonation condition when the injector fires...
Do you have a volt meter and a battery charger?
I recently experienced some cold start issues in the upper 20F-lower 30F temps we have been having here, and figured my nearly 3 year old chinese battery was on it's way out. After charging with a battery charger for 30 minutes, the engine started normally with the standard 20 seconds of pre-heat and midrange throttle that I normally use for startup. As soon as the engine fires, I ****** the throttle so the RPM never goes over the 900 RPM idle. I also, warm or cold, always use compression release to aid in engine spinup and to allow crankshaft oil pressure to build(saves wear on rod bearings). It didn't sound any different while cranking than it did the day before when it failed to start at near the same cold temp. But that little difference in plug effectiveness and crank RPM made a very noticeable difference in starting.
As standard troubleshooting though, I checked and cleaned all the electrical connections at battery, frame and starter. Have you done this? I also put a voltmeter on the battery while the engine was running. I only saw a peak around 13.5-6 VDC. With the engine running at say 1000 RPM, what voltage do you measure at the battery? Normal voltage to be applied to a lead acid auto battery by the alternator is 14.5VDC +/- .5VDC. If you are getting less than 14V at 1000 RPM at the battery, you are not fully charging the battery. This appears to be my main problem as my battery still checks out good. At 13.5V, I am never leaving the battery with a full charge when I shut down. Now this may be fixed with a new voltage regulator, but looking back in my records, mine has always been a little on the low side. I am working on a way to adjust this and increase the alternator output to a more appropriate 14.5 volts. Untill then, I am using an automatic battery charger to keep the battery peaked, and the tractor is starting first time regardless of temp.
As for starting when cold, your glowplugs may be OK now, but they won't be if you keep up the starting practice you described. Neither will the starter with 3-4 start attempts for each actual start. One thing that makes a huge difference in start performance, but is not readilly noticible while cranking is the charge state of the battery.
First off, the cold saps the batterys energy, and makes the glow plugs not make as much heat as they normally would. This in a very cold engine reduces their pre-heat effectiveness even further. The reduction in battery energy also leads to a slight reduction in crank RPM and ultimate piston velocity. A slower piston speed compresses the air slower and leaves more time for the cylinder and head to absorb the heat generated and a results in a final lower temp air pocket that the cold fuel is sprayed into. The result is the poor or no detonation condition when the injector fires...
Do you have a volt meter and a battery charger?
I recently experienced some cold start issues in the upper 20F-lower 30F temps we have been having here, and figured my nearly 3 year old chinese battery was on it's way out. After charging with a battery charger for 30 minutes, the engine started normally with the standard 20 seconds of pre-heat and midrange throttle that I normally use for startup. As soon as the engine fires, I ****** the throttle so the RPM never goes over the 900 RPM idle. I also, warm or cold, always use compression release to aid in engine spinup and to allow crankshaft oil pressure to build(saves wear on rod bearings). It didn't sound any different while cranking than it did the day before when it failed to start at near the same cold temp. But that little difference in plug effectiveness and crank RPM made a very noticeable difference in starting.
As standard troubleshooting though, I checked and cleaned all the electrical connections at battery, frame and starter. Have you done this? I also put a voltmeter on the battery while the engine was running. I only saw a peak around 13.5-6 VDC. With the engine running at say 1000 RPM, what voltage do you measure at the battery? Normal voltage to be applied to a lead acid auto battery by the alternator is 14.5VDC +/- .5VDC. If you are getting less than 14V at 1000 RPM at the battery, you are not fully charging the battery. This appears to be my main problem as my battery still checks out good. At 13.5V, I am never leaving the battery with a full charge when I shut down. Now this may be fixed with a new voltage regulator, but looking back in my records, mine has always been a little on the low side. I am working on a way to adjust this and increase the alternator output to a more appropriate 14.5 volts. Untill then, I am using an automatic battery charger to keep the battery peaked, and the tractor is starting first time regardless of temp.
hydraulic fluid suction strainer inside the lift box?, the only one i know about is the one under the seat , if thats what you are talking about , one other thing is i see it wants to push oil out the breater , where you put the fluid in ,like when you let the bucket down , i checked it and the fluid is under the full mark , so its not over full , what would make it do that ? what ever it is i think its makeing it do that slow when cold and oil comeing out the over flow .Thanks Frank
greg_g
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Yes, and the lift box is under the seat.Frankm said:
I don't believe the two are related. And owners are advised to let the bucket down before shutting off the engine. Otherwise what you describe will happen, even if the hydraulic system is otherwise working perfect.Frankm said:
Another thing, is to make sure that the loader is on the ground and the bucket is uncurled and the three point hitch is lowered and the engine is off before you check the hydraulic fluid level. If you have only one line on that little dipstick by the way, that's the FULL mark.
//greg//
