My father just purchased a 2210 with loader and JD front snowblower. The dealer told him that no counterweight was necessary for either the loader or blower. I have a BX22 and know from experience that loader work of any kind without rear weight is DANGEROUS. So with the 2210, being similiar in size and weight, I find the JD dealers statement to be irresponsible at best. My father didn't listen to my opinions/experience so I'm hoping some of you can give some feedback for me to pass along before something undersirable happens.
2210 and counterweight
- Thread starter Charley
- Start date
- Views: 7325
MikePA
Super Moderator
<font color="blue"> So with the 2210, being similiar in size and weight, I find the JD dealers statement to be irresponsible at best.</font>
First, Welcome to TBN, Charley! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
While the size and weight of a tractor are important, the front to rear balance of the weight is probably moreso and this can vary from brand to brand and from model to model, within a brand.
For example, I have been able to lift full bucket loads of limestone without any rear weight, i.e., no wheel weights or filled tires, on my NH TC25D. While the backend gets lighter, and traction, if not in 4WD, is lessened, it's not anything I'd call dangerous. This depends, of course, what kind of ground I am on, plus I do not drive fast and I keep the bucket low and I go slow. So, I respectfully disagree with <font color="blue"> loader work of any kind without rear weight is DANGEROUS </font> as a blanket statement for all tractors and models.
I'd talk to the dealer and ask him why he is making such a statement. I can not imagine any dealer would recommend something that is both unsafe and will eliminate a sale of some weights. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
First, Welcome to TBN, Charley! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
While the size and weight of a tractor are important, the front to rear balance of the weight is probably moreso and this can vary from brand to brand and from model to model, within a brand.
For example, I have been able to lift full bucket loads of limestone without any rear weight, i.e., no wheel weights or filled tires, on my NH TC25D. While the backend gets lighter, and traction, if not in 4WD, is lessened, it's not anything I'd call dangerous. This depends, of course, what kind of ground I am on, plus I do not drive fast and I keep the bucket low and I go slow. So, I respectfully disagree with <font color="blue"> loader work of any kind without rear weight is DANGEROUS </font> as a blanket statement for all tractors and models.
I'd talk to the dealer and ask him why he is making such a statement. I can not imagine any dealer would recommend something that is both unsafe and will eliminate a sale of some weights. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
mhalla
Gold Member
<font color="green">Charley,
The 210 FEL owners manual clearly states "DO NOT operate tractor/loader unless it is equipped with proper ballast."
Have your father read the manual.
Mike </font>
The 210 FEL owners manual clearly states "DO NOT operate tractor/loader unless it is equipped with proper ballast."
Have your father read the manual.
Mike </font>
wisconsinguy
Silver Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2003
- Messages
- 115
- Tractor
- JD 2210
Hi
As an owner of a 2210 with loader, I and every other 2210 owner on here will tell him that some counter weight is required. If he doesn't believe you have him carefuly read his owners manuals, they spell out exactly how much ballast is required. I would go look it up but don't have much time right now but felt it improtant to say something before he goes out and tips his new tractor over.
later
Phil
As an owner of a 2210 with loader, I and every other 2210 owner on here will tell him that some counter weight is required. If he doesn't believe you have him carefuly read his owners manuals, they spell out exactly how much ballast is required. I would go look it up but don't have much time right now but felt it improtant to say something before he goes out and tips his new tractor over.
later
Phil
MikePA
Super Moderator
<font color="blue">The 210 FEL owners manual clearly states "DO NOT operate tractor/loader unless it is equipped with proper ballast." </font>
Given that this statement is in the manual, I'd take the manual to the dealer, show him this statement and ask him why the advice he gives contradicts what's in the manual.
Given that this statement is in the manual, I'd take the manual to the dealer, show him this statement and ask him why the advice he gives contradicts what's in the manual.
bigpete
Veteran Member
Your father's 2210 will need anywhere from 250 to 600 pounds of total combined ballast on the 3-point hitch and/or in the rear wheels for safe use of the loader. That depends, of course, on what is being done with the loader and what materials he intends to carry.
As far as the blower, he may be safe operating it without ballast, but he will certainly loose a considerable amount of effective weight, and hence traction, on the rear wheels.
Which employee at the dealer gave you the misinformation? I'm not sure it would be constructive to confront the employee, but I'm sure the dealership owner or GM would appreciate knowing that his employee(s) is giving unsafe advice to new tractor owners. If your father wants some credible verification, have him pick up the phone and call JD Customer Service. 1-800-537-8233
As far as the blower, he may be safe operating it without ballast, but he will certainly loose a considerable amount of effective weight, and hence traction, on the rear wheels.
Which employee at the dealer gave you the misinformation? I'm not sure it would be constructive to confront the employee, but I'm sure the dealership owner or GM would appreciate knowing that his employee(s) is giving unsafe advice to new tractor owners. If your father wants some credible verification, have him pick up the phone and call JD Customer Service. 1-800-537-8233
bmclernon
New member
Does the operator's weight count as part of the equation when determining how much counter weight is required for the FEL?
My new 2210 is being delivered next week. When I placed the order the dealer did not mention counter weight. I'm a big guy, my weight is on the far side of 300 lbs.
My new 2210 is being delivered next week. When I placed the order the dealer did not mention counter weight. I'm a big guy, my weight is on the far side of 300 lbs.
Hambone
Platinum Member
My ballast box came with the FEL. No questions were even asked to me. A must is what the dealer said. The owners manual confirms this. I also confirm after using.
One thing the dealer said also that I thought was interesting.
Using FEL without ballast will cause front axle damage i.e. bearing failure at wheels. Not designed to have that much weight, the ballast box I have filled with sand works very well.
One thing the dealer said also that I thought was interesting.
Using FEL without ballast will cause front axle damage i.e. bearing failure at wheels. Not designed to have that much weight, the ballast box I have filled with sand works very well.
art
Super Member
I as a dealer respect and enjoy these boards. I do hope, but I can never be to sure what one of our sales staff might tell someone when purchasing a tractor. I can only hope to think that to do wrong they would rather not give false information but take the chance that it would loose the sale. The owners manual says it all.
Hambone
Platinum Member
That was a good post Art.
Very well said.
Very well said.
bigpete
Veteran Member
The operator's weight is certainly a factor but the recommendations for ballast do not consider that. I hate to guess, but I imagine that J.D. engineers assume there will be a 175-200 pound operator when they issue ballast specs. In other words, I wouldn't count my own weight as ballast because they probably have not. That kind of assumption is on the safe side of the equation.
Good point about front axle wear. Ballast adds weight to the total weight of the machine, but distributes it more evenly on all four hubs and axles. The thought about axle wear occurred to me this fall when I was moving a stump that must have weighed upward to 700 pounds or more. I upped my ballast to over 650 pounds as well by adding 8-42 pound suitcase weights to my 325 pound box blade. My 190 pounds helped a little. I filled my tires to the max PSI and I felt stable, but still went low and slow. My thought was that, even though I felt stable, the wear on the axles must have been geometrically increased by the load. My common sense told me that if I intended to consistently run my 2210 at the upper margins of its capabilities, I should buy a larger new tractor (then I saw my wife's lovely, but scowling face in my daydream /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif....). It was an isolated job, so I still feel pretty well tooled for 99.99% of my use.
Just to echo, read the manual and if you are still not sure, get in touch with JD--especially if you are not confident in what you have been told by the dealer rep. As was indirectly mentioned, sometimes sales people say stupid things without even thinking. I have had good luck with the salesperson who has sold me my tractors in the past. When we hit a topic or spec he doesn't understand, he refuses to give me an answer and we have made a few calls together and spent quite a bit of time with the technicians over my purchases.
I like a heavy-duty box blade as ballast because it does double duty on occasion. It's easy enough to hang weights on it to get it up to about the same weight as the weight capacity of the bucket. I actually intend to find a few more cheap suitcase weights to offset the weight of the loader in addition the the max load it will lift. Theoretically, the tractor will then be balanced on the axles the way it was intended. If you are using forks, the ballst ratio has to be increased, i.e. more weight in the back because the weight carried on the front is farther forward and moves the center of weight distribution forward on the axles.
My only other advice is that if you find yourself constantly concerned about needing more ballast, perhaps you need a bigger and heavier machine.
Good point about front axle wear. Ballast adds weight to the total weight of the machine, but distributes it more evenly on all four hubs and axles. The thought about axle wear occurred to me this fall when I was moving a stump that must have weighed upward to 700 pounds or more. I upped my ballast to over 650 pounds as well by adding 8-42 pound suitcase weights to my 325 pound box blade. My 190 pounds helped a little. I filled my tires to the max PSI and I felt stable, but still went low and slow. My thought was that, even though I felt stable, the wear on the axles must have been geometrically increased by the load. My common sense told me that if I intended to consistently run my 2210 at the upper margins of its capabilities, I should buy a larger new tractor (then I saw my wife's lovely, but scowling face in my daydream /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif....). It was an isolated job, so I still feel pretty well tooled for 99.99% of my use.
Just to echo, read the manual and if you are still not sure, get in touch with JD--especially if you are not confident in what you have been told by the dealer rep. As was indirectly mentioned, sometimes sales people say stupid things without even thinking. I have had good luck with the salesperson who has sold me my tractors in the past. When we hit a topic or spec he doesn't understand, he refuses to give me an answer and we have made a few calls together and spent quite a bit of time with the technicians over my purchases.
I like a heavy-duty box blade as ballast because it does double duty on occasion. It's easy enough to hang weights on it to get it up to about the same weight as the weight capacity of the bucket. I actually intend to find a few more cheap suitcase weights to offset the weight of the loader in addition the the max load it will lift. Theoretically, the tractor will then be balanced on the axles the way it was intended. If you are using forks, the ballst ratio has to be increased, i.e. more weight in the back because the weight carried on the front is farther forward and moves the center of weight distribution forward on the axles.
My only other advice is that if you find yourself constantly concerned about needing more ballast, perhaps you need a bigger and heavier machine.
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I wouldn't count my own weight as ballast )</font>
When I first got my little B7100 with a FEL, I just used a rope and hooks on the FEL to lift one end of a small portable building a few inches off the ground because I wanted to slide a sheet of plywood under it. No problem. Then I stepped off the tractor to get the plywood, the little building settled back to the ground, and both rear tires on the tractor came up off the ground. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
When I first got my little B7100 with a FEL, I just used a rope and hooks on the FEL to lift one end of a small portable building a few inches off the ground because I wanted to slide a sheet of plywood under it. No problem. Then I stepped off the tractor to get the plywood, the little building settled back to the ground, and both rear tires on the tractor came up off the ground. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
fgross335_2210
Gold Member
The others posts are true! Read the FEL owner's manual they spend many pages discussing the need for ballast.
My JD said that I HAD to get either the ballast box or filled tires with the FEL, choice of either one WAS included in the FEL price. I negotiated quick-tach weights instead and paid a little extra to get 6 in total (I mount them on a 3pt receiver hitch).
My 2210 felt tippy with just the loader without anything in the bucket! I can't imagine using it w/o ballast.
I have 2-50lb wheel weights on each rear wheel and the 6-40lb quick-tach weights for a total of 440 pounds. This will not allow a max lift but has worked well for the work I have done at my property.
My JD said that I HAD to get either the ballast box or filled tires with the FEL, choice of either one WAS included in the FEL price. I negotiated quick-tach weights instead and paid a little extra to get 6 in total (I mount them on a 3pt receiver hitch).
My 2210 felt tippy with just the loader without anything in the bucket! I can't imagine using it w/o ballast.
I have 2-50lb wheel weights on each rear wheel and the 6-40lb quick-tach weights for a total of 440 pounds. This will not allow a max lift but has worked well for the work I have done at my property.
