2538 Cab Third function and hydraulic question

[millsan1]

I have a 2538 Cab.

I have an EA grapple and the third function kit from them as well.

I am frustrated with how the loader valve and third function are working together.

It appears to me that when I engage any of the FEL functions, the power beyond does not get any flow.

For instance, if I am curling or lifting, I cannot clamp with the third function. There is just no flow at all to it. This is a big PITA when doing things like picking up boulders and logs, etc.

I am 99% sure I have it plumbed correctly. Dealer is coming out to look at the end of the week.

ASSUMING I am plumbed correctly, I am at the point where I want to take the third function off the power beyond and plumb in a split off the FEL circuit. I will do more research on that, but here is what I am thinkiing, wondering if this is an OK plan:

Split the hydraulics from the pump, before the FEL valve. One hose to FEL, one hose to third function.

Split the return line to tank. One from FEL and one from third function.

I think this will work, but I am unsure if I need check valves in there to protect against reversing.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I have a 2538 Cab.

I have an EA grapple and the third function kit from them as well.

I am frustrated with how the loader valve and third function are working together.

It appears to me that when I engage any of the FEL functions, the power beyond does not get any flow.

For instance, if I am curling or lifting, I cannot clamp with the third function. There is just no flow at all to it. This is a big PITA when doing things like picking up boulders and logs, etc.

I am 99% sure I have it plumbed correctly. Dealer is coming out to look at the end of the week.

ASSUMING I am plumbed correctly, I am at the point where I want to take the third function off the power beyond and plumb in a split off the FEL circuit. I will do more research on that, but here is what I am thinkiing, wondering if this is an OK plan:

Split the hydraulics from the pump, before the FEL valve. One hose to FEL, one hose to third function.

Split the return line to tank. One from FEL and one from third function.

I think this will work, but I am unsure if I need check valves in there to protect against reversing.

Any advice is appreciated.

You are now at the mercy of "open center" hydraulics: the valves are "flow-through" at essentially zero pressure until you open one to divert flow to a cylinder, at which point it stops up the system to get pressure, with no flow now going to your third function. If you split before the FEL valve, you'll have absolutely no pressure to either valve.

 

[e5wd6114]

You are now at the mercy of "open center" hydraulics: the valves are "flow-through" at essentially zero pressure until you open one to divert flow to a cylinder, at which point it stops up the system to get pressure, with no flow now going to your third function. If you split before the FEL valve, you'll have absolutely no pressure to either valve.

That is correct. To fix your issue you would, at a minimum, need to upgrade to a series valve with a third function built in which even if available would be cost prohibitive. The bottom line is that you have a tractor with a loader attachment that will never operate like a construction grade unit. There is a reason that a 40hp tractor cost 30k or less but a 40hp skidsteer is more than double that price.

 

[millsan1]

Thank you for the feedback.

I am not challenging, only asking.

I had a BX25 with the same setup. I was able to curl and grip at the same time.

I assumed, based on these answers, that I should be able to curl and grip if I only curl a little and grip a little, but no love.

That being said, I am confused as to why, if I make a parrallell circuit, for just the third function, I would lose all functionality. Please educate me, as I clearly am a complete novice on hydraulics.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Thank you for the feedback.

I am not challenging, only asking.

I had a BX25 with the same setup. I was able to curl and grip at the same time.

I assumed, based on these answers, that I should be able to curl and grip if I only curl a little and grip a little, but no love.

That being said, I am confused as to why, if I make a parrallell circuit, for just the third function, I would lose all functionality. Please educate me, as I clearly am a complete novice on hydraulics.

Simple: the fluid will go where it has the path of least resistance; an open-center circuit valve, when not engaged, is no more than a piece of hose! So you've made a Y hose with your parallel circuit; when you activate a valve, it "stops up" that part of the Y, and the fluid, instead of activating your grapple, simply flows through the other valve back to the tank (or backhoe or three-point). And when you activate an open-center circuit valve, it stops the downstream flow.
I do have a valve with a third function built in (joystick plus grapple), and it was just over $400, and through the magic of "regeneration" will sort of allow the FEL and grapple to work at once, but it has these downsides: it will flow twice what the factory valve will flow, which likely means that it will be less "sensitive". It does have a very long lever, however, so perhaps this will mitigate the issue (and the factory valve is so difficult to feather that I'm not sure this could be worse!) It's also very large, and weighs perhaps fifteen pounds more than the factory Besko valve, so it needs to be mounted differently. I'm actually doing this now, and hope to have it done in the next few days, at which point I'll post pictures. My expenditure, for the valve, hoses for the grapple, fittings, etc. is around $650 at this point—but I'll be able to mount the old valve on the back of the machine for top'n'tilt control of my 3-point!

 

[millsan1]

Thank you, that helps me understand.

 

[millsan1]

I think I may know what I did wrong. I think I plumbed into the T port instead of the PB port. After speaking with several people, including Josh at WR, a little light went off in my head. I have to check this weekend.

 

[BuggyMasters]

I think I may know what I did wrong. I think I plumbed into the T port instead of the PB port. After speaking with several people, including Josh at WR, a little light went off in my head. I have to check this weekend.

How'd you make out? If n a side note...You guys are educating the heck out of me!!!

 

[millsan1]

How'd you make out? If n a side note...You guys are educating the heck out of me!!!

I have yet to get under there and work. Was siding all week, when it wasn't raining.