2538 HST Won't Start

[PapaRoo]

Hi all - I've encountered a starting problem with my 2538 that I am hoping someone can help me with. I've seen other no start threads but they didn't seem to have the exact same problem.

About a week ago, I ran the tractor for awhile and moved it to the barn. Everything was fine. I shut it down and then came back to it the next day and when I turned the key, nothing. Not so much as a wheeze from the starter. No dash lights, no hazard lights. I'm new to tractors but the only time I've ever seen anything like that with a car or truck is when the battery is stone dead. I popped the hood and WOW I have never seen that much corrosion on a battery in my life. I gather from other threads this is a known problem. I cleaned the terminals and reconnected everything, but still dead. Given that the battery was from 2015 (in a 2017 tractor) I bought a replacement.

As part of installing the replacement, I bought new positive and negative terminal connectors (the original negative fell apart when taking it off), got anti-corrosion gel, scrubbed all of the leads that were being attached to the terminals, gelled everything and put it all back together. When I put the negative connector on, I could hear that she had power again. I checked the hazard lights and they worked and the dash lights worked when key was in the ON position. I turned to START and I heard a "click" and then nothing. Dash lights gone, hazard lights gone. Nothing.

I then traced all grounds to their bolt on the frame, unbolted, cleaned, bolted. I did the same for the positive cable running to the starter solenoid. Again, when I put the connectors back onto the battery, I have dash lights and hazard lights, but as soon as I turn it to START, "click", and it's stone dead.

I figure it is electrical in nature but I do not know what. I've had no start problems due to safety switches, like having PTO engaged, but when that happens the tractor still has electric power and the dash lights are on.

I bought a newish tractor to hopefully not have to spend hours to make it run.

Any help greatly appreciated!!:worried:

 

[RNeumann]

Have you charged that new battery? It could be low from sitting on the shelf at the store.

I’d also replace the ground cable for sure and maybe the positive. New ends won’t cut it with that much corrosion. My guess is you have enough of a ground to turn things on but so much resistance that it won’t start it.....assuming the new battery isn’t low.

The batteries that aren’t sealed will leak with all the bouncing around in the tractor. Hopefully the new one is sealed.

 

[sspenst]

Have you charged that new battery? It could be low from sitting on the shelf at the store.

I would also replace the ground cable for sure and maybe the positive. New ends won't cut it with that much corrosion. My guess is you have enough of a ground to turn things on but so much resistance that it won't start it.....assuming the new battery isn't low.

The batteries that aren't sealed will leak with all the bouncing around in the tractor. Hopefully the new one is sealed.

I noticed my 2638 hst cab was starting the same thing with only 40 hours on it.... known issue. the battery was made by EXIDE when i pulled it out. it was starting to corrode my battery hold down bar.. so i called dealer and spoke to the warranty person and voila! because i live so far away she told me to go buy one. send pictures of battery, and copy of receipt and i will get a full refund! i bought a AGM battery($260)(mahindra batteries aparently are around $500??) from my local Canadian Tire as to hopefully avoid future leaks etc...there is only 1 year warranty on the battery acording to my dealer so i acted quick! i went thru that problem on my 2014 3016 shuttle... i decided not to dilly dally around this time!
anyway i agree with RNeumann, replace at least the ground cable. may have to grind the frame connection if u haven't(wire brush isn't enough). doesn't sound like blown fuses to me. if it clicks then it sounds like a ground issue. my 3016 did the same thing, turn key and click then nothing. did it a few times and each time i had to re tighten the ground or grind the frame. seems like u can't get them tight enough.. i wouln't think the starter solenoid is bad yet.....

 

[PapaRoo]

Thanks to you both. I will pick up a new ground cable today and give it a shot.

 

[RNeumann]

I noticed my 2638 hst cab was starting the same thing with only 40 hours on it.... known issue. the battery was made by EXIDE when i pulled it out. it was starting to corrode my battery hold down bar.. so i called dealer and spoke to the warranty person and voila! because i live so far away she told me to go buy one. send pictures of battery, and copy of receipt and i will get a full refund! i bought a AGM battery($260)(mahindra batteries aparently are around $500??) from my local Canadian Tire as to hopefully avoid future leaks etc...there is only 1 year warranty on the battery acording to my dealer so i acted quick! i went thru that problem on my 2014 3016 shuttle... i decided not to dilly dally around this time!
anyway i agree with RNeumann, replace at least the ground cable. may have to grind the frame connection if u haven't(wire brush isn't enough). doesn't sound like blown fuses to me. if it clicks then it sounds like a ground issue. my 3016 did the same thing, turn key and click then nothing. did it a few times and each time i had to re tighten the ground or grind the frame. seems like u can't get them tight enough.. i wouln't think the starter solenoid is bad yet.....

I too replaced mine with an AGM. I also used that battery acid neutralizer spray that goes from yellow to red or vise versa. It seemed to help clean things up. And of course a little spray paint at the end.

 

[Roadworthy]

If the new cable doesn't solve your problem consider removing your new battery and having it load tested. Even a new battery can be defective internally.

 

[radios1]

if you have a multimeter, and someone to help, you can put it on the battery, and turn the key to start, and measure the voltage, if ok, then you can check for voltage on the positive and negative cables to their final connections, if you see a voltage there, that cable or connection is bad, and you can trace it back to the battery to find out where the connection is bad..

 

[RNeumann]

With a multimeter the voltage may be ok but the resistance/ohms is what I’d worry about.......Assuming the battery is good

 

[BertZegers]

There is no benefit at all in measuring resistance/ohms with a multi meter to find a fault. Measure voltage drop under load instead, like radio 1 suggests (with a multi meter on volt, choose 12 volt or the lowest setting above 12 volt).
For example; the negative probe on the battery negative lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on a good clean bare metal spot on the frame or engine.
Or the positive probe on the battery positive lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on the starter were the battery cable connects. You want to find a voltage drop in a circuit or part of a circuit.
If you find a voltage drop, than narrow down. The cheapest analog meter is good enough.

 

[RNeumann]

There is no benefit at all in measuring resistance/ohms with a multi meter to find a fault. Measure voltage drop under load instead, like radio 1 suggests (with a multi meter on volt, choose 12 volt or the lowest setting above 12 volt).
For example; the negative probe on the battery negative lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on a good clean bare metal spot on the frame or engine.
Or the positive probe on the battery positive lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on the starter were the battery cable connects. You want to find a voltage drop in a circuit or part of a circuit.
If you find a voltage drop, than narrow down. The cheapest analog meter is good enough.

Are you high?

 

[PapaRoo]

Well the new ground cable and cleaning off the frame did not solve the problem. Same click. Will try the multi-meter tomorrow, although seems there are conflicting opinions on the best way to do that.

 

[Topzide]

Can you get to the starter? If so, first take a set of jumper cables and attach negative cable to negative terminal, the clamp onto a bolt that holds starter to the tractor. Try key. If it starts, it's a ground issue. If not, step two. Attach positive cable to positive terminal of battery. Take other end and tap terminal were large cable attached to starter (not the solenoid terminal if your starter has one bolt onto it). Be prepared for the engine to possibly spin over. If this works, check positive cables or starter solenoid. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Topzide]

One other possibility is that you have a safety circuit causing a fault. Then you'll need a meter to stay checking safety switches!

 

[radios1]

With a multimeter the voltage may be ok but the resistance/ohms is what I壇 worry about.......Assuming the battery is good

WRONG!. if you have good voltage under load, the connections are good, Voltage under load is what matters.. I have an MSEE degree.. with 40 years of experience engineering..

 

[grsthegreat]

have you physically tried to twist the battery cables and make sure they dont turn. I found out the hard way that the cable i thought was snug wasnt. i had the wife turn key while i twisted battery cables. the tractor came to life. those **** cables clamps stretch over time.

 

[PapaRoo]

Can you get to the starter? If so, first take a set of jumper cables and attach negative cable to negative terminal, the clamp onto a bolt that holds starter to the tractor. Try key. If it starts, it's a ground issue. If not, step two. Attach positive cable to positive terminal of battery. Take other end and tap terminal were large cable attached to starter (not the solenoid terminal if your starter has one bolt onto it). Be prepared for the engine to possibly spin over. If this works, check positive cables or starter solenoid. Hope this helps and good luck!

Ok I知 not sure I follow what you are saying here. I can get to the starter. Are you saying clamp the negative cable on the battery negative terminal and then also clamp the negative cable on a bolt holding the starter?

When you move on to the positive test do you leave the negative cable clamped on? Mine does appear to have a solenoid that痴 right beside/on the starter and that痴 where the cable from battery attaches.

 

[PapaRoo]

have you physically tried to twist the battery cables and make sure they dont turn. I found out the hard way that the cable i thought was snug wasnt. i had the wife turn key while i twisted battery cables. the tractor came to life. those **** cables clamps stretch over time.

Yes I got brand new cable connectors and tightened the crap out of them onto the terminals. Every time I try to start it, I get a click and I have to take both clamps off and then put them back on to get the dash to light up and give me another try to start.

 

[radios1]

Ok I知 not sure I follow what you are saying here. I can get to the starter. Are you saying clamp the negative cable on the battery negative terminal and then also clamp the negative cable on a bolt holding the starter?

When you move on to the positive test do you leave the negative cable clamped on? Mine does appear to have a solenoid thatç—´ right beside/on the starter and thatç—´ where the cable from battery attaches.

Yes to 1 no to 2. you are testing the cables 1 by 1. thinking about it, you may have a corroded fuse block causing this problem!.. I've seen that same symptom before.

 

[Topzide]

What your trying to do is to bypass all the cables from the battery to the starter. By using the jumper cables you're confirming that the cables are good or bad and also whether you have a good ground to the frame.
This can also allow you to bypass the ignition switch. Since you say the your starter has the solenoid attached, were the heavy connection goes from solenoid to starter, you could touch positive battery cable to that stud to make starter spin. Without power going to small connector on solenoid, the engine won't spin due to bendix not engaging the flywheel.
PM me if needed and I'll send # so can talk if needed. Good luck, we're all here with help when needed!

 

[LouNY]

There is no benefit at all in measuring resistance/ohms with a multi meter to find a fault. Measure voltage drop under load instead, like radio 1 suggests (with a multi meter on volt, choose 12 volt or the lowest setting above 12 volt).
For example; the negative probe on the battery negative lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on a good clean bare metal spot on the frame or engine.
Or the positive probe on the battery positive lead post (not the clamp) and the other probe on the starter were the battery cable connects. You want to find a voltage drop in a circuit or part of a circuit.
If you find a voltage drop, than narrow down. The cheapest analog meter is good enough.

Using this method will verify if you have an issue with the power cable to the starter;
With your meter on DC Volts,
connect your negative lead to your positive battery post,
connect your positive lead to the starter solenoids main post,
you should be reading 0 volts as the battery post and cable to the solenoid should be at the same potential,
have some one try to start the tractor using the key, you will normally see 1 to 3 volts on your meter,
that is the voltage drop thru the cable under load.
If you see over 3 volts you have a bad battery cable to the starter.
If you see 0 volts and the tractor does not turn over but you hear the solenoid click,
move the positive meter lead to the stud on the starter that the solenoid feeds.
And try again to start the tractor, you should see 1 to 3 volts and the tractor should crank over.
If you see a much higher voltage reading you need a new solenoid.

Using good jumper cables to go from the battery negative to a starter mounting bolt is verifying the ground path.
Then using the jumper cable from the positive battery terminal to the starter solenoid battery terminal is a method of verifying the power feed cable.

Both method will work to troubleshoot cable issues,
I did say good jumper cables as many of the ones on the market today are about worthless,
they are #10 or lighter wire with a bunch of cheap plastic making them look heavy duty.
Good ones will at a bare minimum be #4 wire and preferably #2.