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Homemade skidding winch part 1 - YouTube
JW5875
Homemade skidding winch part 1 - YouTube
JW5875
3 pt Winch
- Thread starter Jw5875
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Stomper
Gold Member
Now thats good "thinking out of the box" kinda stuff.
Sawyer Rob
Super Member
That was a common way to build them, in the past...
SR
SR
texasranger556
Platinum Member
Once again confirms YouTube commenters are like monkeys doing calculus; mildly entertaining but mostly childish and wrong.
kebo
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Quote from the video: "OSHA would have a heyday with me". He ain't kidding either with no guards in place, no warning stickers, etc.
One other point, that winch is going way too fast to be safe, it needs to be geared down even more. But I do wonder what the pull rating on it would be???
texasranger556
Platinum Member
Some quick math making several assumptions:
Oliver 770 is rated at 47 HP PTO. That works out to 457 lb ft torque at 540 RPM PTO speed. Not sure what the ratio is in his truck axle, but say it's 3.55:1. Since it's driving an open diff with the other axle locked by the brake, it pushes the ratio back up to 1.775:1. 457*1.775 = 811 lb ft of torque. Say the rim is 15" diameter, the center section where the strap is riding has a radius of approx 6". 811 * 12/6 = 1622 lbs pulling force. That's at rated PTO RPMs. I don't know what a 6 cyl oliver torque curve looks like, but assuming it stays relatively flat from idle to rated PTO speed and the governor can keep RPM steady at idle, winch pulling force would stay around 1600 lbs at idle.
Now if he welded the spider gears or added a locker, that would double the pulling force to 3200 lbs. Better yet, wrap the strap around a 2" piece of pipe with a locker in the diff, and you'd have around 4800 lbs pulling force, then less as the strap wound up on the pipe. Then you could really bend stuff and kill people when something breaks.
Feel free to check the calcs.
Last edited:
flingwing1969
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Try this one. I really do like the capstan winch idea. Very easy to control and very simple operation. Hydraulic Log Skidding Winch for Tractors - SkidWinch by Norwood Sawmills - YouTube
MossRoad
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About 1500 bucks. That's not too bad, all things considered. I wonder what the specs are on it? I can't find any on their website.
flingwing1969
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I could find little information on it either. I do know that the winch is hydraulically driven so one would have to have remotes (which I do). I could not even find the price so you are ahead of me on that. I sent a note to the company so we will see if they answer. The video was impressive. I've used capstan winches on boats and felling trees (twice) and it is amazing how they work, not enough pull, take another turn.
flingwing1969
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Okay, there is a comment on the YouTube Video that says, "Only 9k, not bad." Well, that's not, "not bad" to me. I wonder how much hydraulic flow they use to get it going, I would suspect not nearly what a regular hydraulic winch requires. It would not be too hard to fab this up if one could find a reasonably priced hydraulic capstan winch.
MossRoad
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Their website leaves, how should I put this.... hmmm.... MUCH TO BE DESIRED! :laughing:
That 9K comment in the video had a dollar sign in front of it. $9K. That is not correct.
Here's a link to their pricing page. It shows $1475.
http://www.norwoodsawmills.com/sites/norwood/files/price-list-english.pdf
That 9K comment in the video had a dollar sign in front of it. $9K. That is not correct.
Here's a link to their pricing page. It shows $1475.
http://www.norwoodsawmills.com/sites/norwood/files/price-list-english.pdf
MossRoad
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But they list no specs on it.
iointerrupt
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I looked long and hard at that Norwood winch. Best I could tell they didn't seem to be for sale anymore. I then spent a long time doing the math on a hydraulic capstan winch, and it didn't pencil out well.
On my small tractor, with only 4 GPM of flow, I could only get about 5 HP out of the hydraulics. The total pulling power then was something like 1500lbs. Crummy little electric winch could beat that.
So in the end I went with the same idea as the original post here, use the PTO, through a gearbox. I have 20HP out the PTO, then through a 4:1 gearbox. I forget the exact numbers, but netted something like 4000lbs of pull. Still not a insane amount of power, but good enough to get real work done.
If there is enough demand, I can probably do a longer post about it.
On my small tractor, with only 4 GPM of flow, I could only get about 5 HP out of the hydraulics. The total pulling power then was something like 1500lbs. Crummy little electric winch could beat that.
So in the end I went with the same idea as the original post here, use the PTO, through a gearbox. I have 20HP out the PTO, then through a 4:1 gearbox. I forget the exact numbers, but netted something like 4000lbs of pull. Still not a insane amount of power, but good enough to get real work done.
If there is enough demand, I can probably do a longer post about it.
MossRoad
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Good gravy, man! Of course there is demand! :laughing:
That looks really interesting. :thumbsup:
flingwing1969
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Indeed there is interest here as well. Lovely and well thought out - you can pull from either side as well. I have (claimed to have anyway) 31 hp at the PTO so there should be a lot of grunt. We need to know sourcing and cost especially - but I'm dying to see your fabrication as well - very nice looking unit. Also, how does she pull with your little tractor compared to the video of the Skid Winch? Thanks.
flingwing1969
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Just for interest sake, this is the portable logging winch I've used a couple of times - just to play with. It pulls around 2k lbs. Your strap it to a handy tree and off you go - often used with a snatch block. It seems there are a couple of nice features on it that could be incorporated onto the TPH model.
I'll speak for the rest of TBN... HECK YEA!!!!
ericm979
Super Member
PILOON
Super Star Member
Like the idea of that capstan winch. Might make one mainly as a project.
I'd PTO drive it, as no clutch is needed (simply ease off pulling) and could use any rt angle gear box (like used on snow blowers or bush hogs).
Web search's show a variety of ratios are available.
The example depicted has 2 drums to provide 2 speeds but be accomplished otherwise.
Preference would be the vertical drum as U could pull from the sides, perhaps exchangeable drums for different speeds.
The down side and limitation is the size and strength of woven rope available which is I believe marine anchor or docking rope. Also limited is the rope diameter that one can grasp comfortably vs the drum size to handle it.
I'd suspect that such a capstan 'logging winch' would generally be limited to one tree at a time and not all that large a one at that.
Speed would necessarily be limited to how fast a person could keep that line taunt going 'hand over hand'.
Main downside would be that the woven tow line would have to be kept VERY clean and totally free of grease oils etc, heck wet soil* would allow slippage.
LOL, I think my last sentence just shot down this project.
OK, some 'tooth' or suitable surface preparation could offset wet slippage but that would subsequently chew up the tow line.
* we all know that clay soils are very slippery., shucks you almost need chains in the summer.
I'd PTO drive it, as no clutch is needed (simply ease off pulling) and could use any rt angle gear box (like used on snow blowers or bush hogs).
Web search's show a variety of ratios are available.
The example depicted has 2 drums to provide 2 speeds but be accomplished otherwise.
Preference would be the vertical drum as U could pull from the sides, perhaps exchangeable drums for different speeds.
The down side and limitation is the size and strength of woven rope available which is I believe marine anchor or docking rope. Also limited is the rope diameter that one can grasp comfortably vs the drum size to handle it.
I'd suspect that such a capstan 'logging winch' would generally be limited to one tree at a time and not all that large a one at that.
Speed would necessarily be limited to how fast a person could keep that line taunt going 'hand over hand'.
Main downside would be that the woven tow line would have to be kept VERY clean and totally free of grease oils etc, heck wet soil* would allow slippage.
LOL, I think my last sentence just shot down this project.
OK, some 'tooth' or suitable surface preparation could offset wet slippage but that would subsequently chew up the tow line.
* we all know that clay soils are very slippery., shucks you almost need chains in the summer.
iointerrupt
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Alright, did a full write up here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/392375-pto-capstan-winch-scratch.html
flingwing1969 - I consider the Norwood Skid Winch video to be...how shall we say, less than impressive. Skidding over clear, leaf-covered ground, is as easy as it gets. The videos of Farmi winches are typically much more interesting, stuff like pulling three trees at once through nasty terrain.
Originally I set out to just build my own clone of the Norwood, it looks so simple, anybody could build that. But hours of shopping for hydraulic motors came out with nothing that made sense.
High speed, low-torque hydraulic motors are readily available, but useless in terms of pulling power.
Slow speed high-torque motors are also plentiful, but all require massive flow rates, like 15-20 GPM. On the hobby-end of the tractor market, nobody has tractors flowing that.
I have no idea what Norwood picked for their unit, but given the video, I suspect they had to make a compromise in the end, and the unit lacks pulling power. Pretty sure my PTO winch easily out pulls it.
PILOON - If I didn't have a dual-shaft gearbox, I would have done vertical mounted drum. Working out the mounting for this gearbox in a vertical configuration was hurting my head too much to attempt, so I just went with horizontal.
flingwing1969 - I consider the Norwood Skid Winch video to be...how shall we say, less than impressive. Skidding over clear, leaf-covered ground, is as easy as it gets. The videos of Farmi winches are typically much more interesting, stuff like pulling three trees at once through nasty terrain.
Originally I set out to just build my own clone of the Norwood, it looks so simple, anybody could build that. But hours of shopping for hydraulic motors came out with nothing that made sense.
High speed, low-torque hydraulic motors are readily available, but useless in terms of pulling power.
Slow speed high-torque motors are also plentiful, but all require massive flow rates, like 15-20 GPM. On the hobby-end of the tractor market, nobody has tractors flowing that.
I have no idea what Norwood picked for their unit, but given the video, I suspect they had to make a compromise in the end, and the unit lacks pulling power. Pretty sure my PTO winch easily out pulls it.
PILOON - If I didn't have a dual-shaft gearbox, I would have done vertical mounted drum. Working out the mounting for this gearbox in a vertical configuration was hurting my head too much to attempt, so I just went with horizontal.
