3 way or 4 way valve needed on BX?

[MrJoe]

Good Day to All:
I have found a 2002 BX 22 which has the 3 way valve control system that removes with the FEL. I understand I would need a 4 way valve system to add a snowblower, plow etc. in the front. Corrrect? The BX 2230 4 valve stays with the tractor so how would you operate any added front attachments with a BX 22 since the controls remove w/ the FEL?
Thanks, Joe

 

[Junkman]

You need the 4 way valve to use a snow blower, sweeper, or front mounted blade. I have sent you a PM also on this subject....

 

[hammer1995]

Junkman:

Could the 4-way valve be used to operate a grapple?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Junkman]

I don't believe that it would work. I am the last person to be giving advise about how valves work, because I don't fully understand them myself. I just know that the 4 way is needed for the use of a blower, sweeper, or plow because of what I have read in the past and have learned from reading. To operate a grapple, you would need to have a separate valve such as that which is used for the rear remote. Exactly how you would plumb it in is something that I would have to work on figuring out. There is the in and out of the valve and then the line back to the reservoir that needs to be completed. How all this would be plumbed I am not certain. I am considering building a grapple for my front bucket, and I will operate it from the rear remote valve that is going on the ROPS.
Care to pool our thoughts on building a grapple? I have some pictures that I have gleaned off the INTERNET for ideas... We should probably start a new thread if we are going to do this.....

 

[jrlichina]

I would plumb in an electric diverter into the curl circuit. Mount it right at the cross support bar along with an impact shield. This way you only need 2 shorter lines that run to the grapple attachment and simply add a small button to the loader handle. To operate the grapple press the button and now the curl becomes the grapple control, pretty simple.

 

[Junkman]

I have not seen one of these diverter's. How do they work and how are they plumbed into the system? Can you link to a page that will give more detailed information on them? How does the cost differ from the cost of purchasing an additional valve..

 

[jrlichina]

Basically what it does is use an electric solenoid to switch between two ports. You take one input(one curl line) into the diverter which is then sent to one of the output ports(OUT-1). Now when you press the button the solenoid closes of the OUT-1 port and diverts it to OUT-2. Release the button and it switches back to OUT-1. All they need is a 12v source for power. This place has some that were designed for adding more rear ports Add A Valve , Surplus Center also has some as well. The cost should be about the same because now you don't need two real long hoses to go from the rear of the tractor to the front. This way you have no extra long messy hoses and the control button is right on the loader hanlde which makes it much easier to use.

 

[Patk]

I just spent the past week understanding why my grapple close was weak and what 3-way vs. 4-way control valves and regenerative dump circuits have to do with it all.

Here's what I got out of it....

I think the 4-way control valve set-up is required due to the bucket dump circuit being regenerative on the 3-way control units. The 4-way provides a 4th non-regenerative circuit when you push the stick far-right beyond the detent/stop. The bucket curl circuit (stick left) is not regenerative...only the dump direction.

The regenerative dump circuit applies pressure to both the base and rod end of the cylinder, and feeds the rod end discharge back into the base end...makes for a quicker/better controlled dump. The larger surface area of the base end (the rod end is smaller by the amount of the rod cross-section area) provides greater force on that side and the rod moves out. BUT, it moves out with much smaller net force when compared to a cylinder that has all pressure on the base side an no-pressure on the rod side. With a bucket full of material being pulled down by gravity, who needs a ton of force to dump? This weak net force cylinder extend action is what does not work well for grapples certianly and I'm guessing other front implements.

In my case I initially used (the Dealer actually) an electric diverter valve on the dump circuit to close the grapple (AnBo 5' grapple....great tool) and the close was weak until I moved the stick beyond the detent, and into non-regenerative mode (all pressure on base an none on rod side). That was a workable way to operate the grapple, but the arm actions required were awkward and difficult to master.

Picture this:

1. push a pile of brush forward with grapple wide open.
2. start to curl back the grapple to get the brush higher on the grapple by pushing stick left.
3. return stick to center BEFORE depressing the button to divert the hydraulic flow to the grapple close circuit.
4. with the stick centered, then depress the button and move stick to the right to close grapple...keep going past the detent to get a full force grip.
5. when you've absolutely crushed the pile (fun to do /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif ) move the stick back to the center BEFORE you release the button.
6. repeat from step 2 till you get all the junk inot the grapples grip.

The problem comes in when you accidentally release the button too early in step 5 above or too early in step 3.

Doing it too early in step 3 opens the grapple wider (you may drop the load).

Doing it too early in step 5 cause a sudden dump of the grapple down....also causing the load to drop most times.

At the very least it's a jerky bronking buck for a few seconds.

The motion is tough to master.

So...I thought 'hey, why not just reverse the hoses at the grapple and reverse the grapple open and close stick directions'. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Here comes the regenerative circuit drawback....

I swap the hoses and find my grapple's close is certianly strong at all times (no need for pushing past the detent since the curl circuit is non regenerative) AND the stick direction to do so is now left . Perfect just what I wanted. BUT, the stick right action which should open the grapple now (this direction is now using the regenerative circuit that applies pressure to both ends of the cylinder remember...at least till you're past the detent) also closes the grapple. It closes the grapple until you get past the detent then starts opening it.

The reason is that the grapple open direction requires the rod end to move in, over powering the base end. With the regenerative action inplay and with the larger area of the base end, the rod does not go in, and in fact goes OUT closing the grapple. Once you get past the detent, the grapple opens, but it's too awkward to use this way.

So what's a person to do if they don't like these 4-way control valve options or worse only have the 3-way control valve? The 3-way controls are regenerative in the dump circuit and have NO regen bypass mode like the 4-way 's do.

You can do what I did and plumb the grapple off the boom circuit instead. I ened up using the boom raise stick direction (stick down) to close the grapple when the diverter button is pressed. It takes a small bit of getting use to, but I find it much better than the stickleft, stick center, press button, stick right, stiock center, release button dance.

I suppose you could also use a completely seperate contol lever plumbed independantly from the FEL 4-way control and steer with your knee's /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hope it helps.